21 replies to this topic

[Rab C]

the taxman

[HaroldShand]

Debt free! Great news!

[London Dick]

I see no problem with this what so ever. Keep the money in your account until the very last minute, it happens every season for us. I am sure reporters must now cut and past from 2011,2010 etc.

[buford t justice]

Kevin is a solicitor and a smart operator - he knows what hes doing, and is doing a superb job.

Thats why we are as well run as we are and a great example to any small club of how it should be done.

[Ackroman]

Leaving it to the last minute prior to a winding up order is not a clever move, it's reckless. Simply because tax liabilities never goes away and you pretty much invite the tax man to hover over your every move in the future

[buford t justice]

Leaving it to the last minute prior to a winding up order is not a clever move, it's reckless. Simply because tax liabilities never goes away and you pretty much invite the tax man to hover over your every move in the future

To say you run your own business, you really havent a clue.

If we'd failed to pay / missed the deadline, then they'd hover over.

As it is, we met the deadline and are debt free as a result. Thats hardly reckless.

Why pay early when you can accrue some interest on the cash and then pay when its due?

[Goooonnnnnnnnnnnnn Sean]

We've clearly overshot some major deadlines for HMRC to pursue a winding up order as this is something of a last resort. This on the face of it would seem to be a bad idea because of the costs involved in defending the order itself, the impacts of the credit worthiness of the club and HMRC penalties. However in Simba's case if this is something he's able to do himself it doesn't necesarily cost us anything and if we're not looking to borrow anything then credit worthiness may also not be such an issue. As for any penalties levied we can only speculate because he's playing his cards close to his chest.

Akroman makes a good point about attracting further HMRC scrutiny but to be honest based our previous VAT indiscretions and the level of attention on the industry as a whole we're probably under the spotlight anyway.

I'm inclined to trust Simba on this one.

Edited by Goooonnnnnnnnnnnnn Sean, 22 February 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[Ackroman]

To say you run your own business, you really havent a clue.

FYI My business doesn't have any tax liabilities because I have a policy on good corporate governance. I don't mess with or earn interest on money that doesn't belong to me. The penalties would far outweigh any interest to be earned, so I think your comment highlights who's clueless on the matter.

[buford t justice]

FYI My business doesn't have any tax liabilities because I have a policy on good corporate governance. I don't mess with or earn interest on money that doesn't belong to me. The penalties would far outweigh any interest to be earned, so I think your comment highlights who's clueless on the matter.

Selling Avon door to door doesnt count as a business in my opinion, though im glad it keeps you occupied.

If a deadline is set for a certain date, then you have until that date to pay it.

HMRC issue winding up orders at the drop of a hat in the current climate, many of which are instigated well before the deadline date, ironically enough to put the "wind up" the company to make them pay on time.

Batley have broken no rules and are debt free, so if you want to carry on your investigation of the way the Batley club is run, take it up with the directors directly - maybe your finely tuned business brain may help them do even better?

We are debt free and in a good place as a club - shame your beloved Sheep cant say that at present - maybe you could give them , in fact all rugby league clubs, the benefit of your vast business knowledge?

Run along and troll on your own board.

Edited by buford t justice, 22 February 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[buford t justice]

I'm inclined to trust Simba on this one.

Exactly - he's a solicitor with decades of experience in law and business.

But of course, we must all bow down to Aggroman's superior business knowledge - there must be something afoot if someone of his calibre is questioning the situation.

[Blind side johnny]

Selling Avon door to door doesnt count as a business in my opinion, though im glad it keeps you occupied.

If a deadline is set for a certain date, then you have until that date to pay it.

HMRC issue winding up orders at the drop of a hat in the current climate, many of which are instigated well before the deadline date, ironically enough to put the "wind up" the company to make them pay on time.

Batley have broken no rules and are debt free, so if you want to carry on your investigation of the way the Batley club is run, take it up with the directors directly - maybe your finely tuned business brain may help them do even better?

We are debt free and in a good place as a club - shame your beloved Sheep cant say that at present - maybe you could give them , in fact all rugby league clubs, the benefit of your vast business knowledge?

Run along and troll on your own board.

Sorry BTJ but the more that you post on this subject the more you reveal your own ignorance of the practicalities of business. speculation about the modus operandii of HMRC isn't the same as experiencing it at first hand.

When you're in a hole stop digging.


By the way, where does it say "debt free" as you claim?

[Ackroman]

Selling Avon door to door doesnt count as a business in my opinion, though im glad it keeps you occupied.

I disagree with you regarding Avon. These people have a work ethic that I admire. Your attempt at insulting me does you no credit.

If a deadline is set for a certain date, then you have until that date to pay it.

True..and HMRC only make moves to wind up a Company when the payment is well overdue and the Company hasn't responded. Go figure Sherlock.

HMRC issue winding up orders at the drop of a hat in the current climate, many of which are instigated well before the deadline date,

What evidence do you have for this? You should have simply responded to my post in the same vein as you started, i.e with personal insults, that way you could have continued pretending you know something about this subject.

so if you want to carry on your investigation of the way the Batley club is run, take it up with the directors directly

It's their business, they can run it how they want. It's not how I would run one, but I wouldn't touch a sports club with your money never mind mine.

- maybe your finely tuned business brain may help them do even better?

see previous

We are debt free and in a good place as a club

Good. I'm genuinely pleased that RL clubs are well placed regardless of who they are.

- shame your beloved Sheep cant say that at present

Your evidence for this?

- maybe you could give them , in fact all rugby league clubs, the benefit of your vast business knowledge?

Back to insults. At least you're on safe ground here

Run along and troll on your own board.

There's a bad echo in here.

Edited by Ackroman, 22 February 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Ackroman]

Exactly - he's a solicitor with decades of experience in law and business.

But of course, we must all bow down to Aggroman's superior business knowledge - there must be something afoot if someone of his calibre is questioning the situation.

OK I'll bite again.

I've dealt with enough cash in hand solicitors to dispel any myth that they are 100% squeaky clean. This in is no way an accusation of any party linked with Batley, simply a real life experience.

I admit my business knowledge is clearly way above yours because playing monopoly doesn't count in my book.

[buford t justice]

By the way, where does it say "debt free" as you claim?

The club went into the season in profit with no debts as far as im aware.

As the HMRC have been paid i assume this is still the case.

[buford t justice]

OK I'll bite again.

I've dealt with enough cash in hand solicitors to dispel any myth that they are 100% squeaky clean. This in is no way an accusation of any party linked with Batley, simply a real life experience.

I admit my business knowledge is clearly way above yours because playing monopoly doesn't count in my book.

Cardiff City were subject to 2 winding up orders prior to meeting a deadline to settle a tax bill -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/8557188.stm

Winding up orders are issued and deadlines changed frequently, doesnt necessarily mean your being 'reckless'

Its a very complex issue, but i dont need to tell you that mr business man.

As for the rams debt - check out their latest filed accounts, and the comments made by a prominent local councillor in the local rag last week.

Edited by buford t justice, 22 February 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Blind side johnny]

The club went into the season in profit with no debts as far as im aware.

As the HMRC have been paid i assume this is still the case.

Every sports club, every business, even the majority of individuals have debts. Whether they also have the funds to settle those debts immediately is a moot point.

The expression "debt free" is not one that would ever be used in a conventional business.

[Ackroman]

Its a very complex issue, but i dont need to tell you that mr business man.

You don't need to tell me anything because you can't Mr Wikipaedia.

Edited by Ackroman, 22 February 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[buford t justice]

You don't need to tell me anything because you can't Mr Wikipaedia.

Skimming over my reply and resorting to an apparent insult.

Seems you dont know everything after all, must come as a real shock to someone with such high opinions of himself.

Case closed m'lud - go straight to jail, do not pass go and do not collect £200.

Edited by buford t justice, 23 February 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[Ackroman]

Skimming over my reply and resorting to an apparent insult.

Seems you dont know everything after all, must come as a real shock to someone with such high opinions of himself.

Case closed m'lud - go straight to jail, do not pass go and do not collect £200.

You started the insults and wouldn't let up, so if you can't take it don't dish it.

I'm not going to continue justifying why I think messing with the tax man is a bad idea and I'm more than happy for you googling for examples where deadlines and winding up orders don't match.

So this is the last thing I will say on the matter.

It's a sobering fact that all the sports clubs I can think of that went into administration have played around with TAX deadlines and used HMRC funds as a way of funding their operation, until the inevitable point where they go into administration to avoid being wound up by creditors. This saves the club but unfortunately the creditors (mainly HMRC) get a fraction of what's owed.

The knock on effect of demonstrating that you are prepared to mess with creditors money (Tax) in a sports club is that sponsors are generally unwilling to pay upfront because their confidence is knocked by the viability of the operation. That means less money for the squad and an inevitable downward spiral.

[Sir Jekyll Stocking]

So this is the last thing I will say on the matter.

Wise decision, Ackroman. This "discussion" become tedious long ago.
Final response from Buford, please, then we can all get on with our lives.