277 replies to this topic

[Tre Cool]

The RFL should commit to a London side as policy for SL, but the franchise should be put out to tender if our crowds don't increase to 5k+ during this period. The club should have to be within 60 miles of central London and the franchise handed to the best tender in terms of business plan, viability, stadium, management team, local media and council commitments.

The club has always felt disorganised, badly thought out and inconsistent. It's not fair on the local players, fans or DH. With the right business plan the new club could easily run with the Sky money behind it. The current club just keeps jumping from one bad position to another.

Edited by Tre Cool, 17 March 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[ckn]

That'd work. Put out a franchise tender for a loss-making, perpetually struggling professional rugby club. I can see the applications flying in.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I've said in the past that a few years in the Championship may rejuvenate the club. They go into every year with no momentum and an expected lower crowd. Perhaps if they can grow a base in the Championship, they can build some momentum as they go up, winning a few games on the way.

Let's see how Crusaders do. So far the signs are that they may have built up a strong fan base for that level. They've got a sprinkling of Welsh talent but mainly based on players from the North (using Wikipedia as I guide here so could be wrong!). If they can compete, especially in The Championship next year if they're promoted, and Lindon are still doing poorly in the SL, I do think the RFL should take a step back and replace them with another expansion side (Toulouse?) as they regroup.

[Tre Cool]

There's no reason a club in the s.e. wouldn't work, and it's vital to have it to top the pyramid down here. But what the broncos have never had is a sound business plan and stadium agreement. With the amount of sky money going out to the club there's no reason a group of people couldn't put together a much stronger club. The Rfl need to act seriously with the high value contract they're currently handing out to a mis-managed club. Get expressions of interest and start a professional tendering process. There's no room for sentiment and emotion.

[CANETMAN]

That'd work. Put out a franchise tender for a loss-making, perpetually struggling professional rugby club. I can see the applications flying in.

Spot on comment IL (Wigan) had to give his shareholding away in the end, dumping London Broncos in the championship would kill the club off and is a non starter.

What the Broncos need is a professional marketeer who knows London inside out, it has the potential however very few in the catchment area know that the club is there little alone when they play a home match.A good example of how to build up a fan base is to follow what the Dragons did in Perpignan for the first 2 years they brought in a professional company to arrange press conferences and a lunch for the local press/radio and TV a few days before each home match and followed it up by a function for the media on match days it became a must go to event.Even though London is vast it needs a concentrated effort to woo the media.

My guess is that they will move if they have a decent gate at either Leyton or Gillingham neither of which is a solution for them the stoop is by far the best venue for rugby in west london.

Edited by CANETMAN, 17 March 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[guess who]

The club should have to be within 60 miles of central London

So in theory the club could move 120 miles away from a location.
What away to treat all the fans.

[Tre Cool]

So in theory the club could move 120 miles away from a location.
What away to treat all the fans.

The current stadium isn't 60 miles from central London, so no. But the v small existing fanbase (of which I am one) shouldn't be the priority, as the club is not currently financially viable.

[bowes]

Spot on comment IL (Wigan) had to give his shareholding away in the end, dumping London Broncos in the championship would kill the club off and is a non starter.

What the Broncos need is a professional marketeer who knows London inside out, it has the potential however very few in the catchment area know that the club is there little alone when they play a home match.A good example of how to build up a fan base is to follow what the Dragons did in Perpignan for the first 2 years they brought in a professional company to arrange press conferences and a lunch for the local press/radio and TV a few days before each home match and followed it up by a function for the media on match days it became a must go to event.Even though London is vast it needs a concentrated effort to woo the media.

My guess is that they will move if they have a decent gate at either Leyton or Gillingham neither of which is a solution for them the stoop is by far the best venue for rugby in west london.

There are only 2 top flight rugby clubs in London and they both play at the same stadium. The 2 second tier RU clubs also play in west London. So leaves a big void elsewhere.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Spot on comment IL (Wigan) had to give his shareholding away in the end, dumping London Broncos in the championship would kill the club off and is a non starter.

For me, that is a huge issue though. If their survival clings on SL, and they're only clinging on with the skin of their teeth, then they shouldn't be a SL club. SL shouldn't be a charity, and it shouldn't be afraid to take a step back from projects that aren't working to regroup. What's the point in throwing millions at a club each year doing the same thing? If they took a step back, they could regroup and come up with a better plan. At the moment they don't have to.

I don't buy that they'd be killed off either. If Crusaders, a club that was only two years old in SL, can build up enough interested fans in that time to reform then (in fact, they had TWO bids from the area), and Celtic had TWO bids from South Wales after they went under after only 3 years in the NLs and 1 in SL, then I'm pretty sure that London can survive or at least reform.

The money ploughed into London could probably fund 4 Championship clubs. If the RFL can somehow manage to bring in Toulouse (and somehow also manage to bring in some French TV cash to subsidise theirs and Catalans TV share), they could still manage an increase (albeit small) across the board AND fund development in London. £1.2m spread over four London clubs in the Championships (North London Skolars, West London Sharks, South London Storm and East London Broncos). Funding for a London academy side to continue in the SL academy league, and if they all get crowds of around 800, they're reaching just as many people as the original SL club did.

12 London derbies a year. Surely that will help build up some rivalries and interest.

[Wembley71]

From memory, the London pro club, in terms of name & regular venue, goes:

Fulham: Fulham
London Crusaders: Chiswick Poly, Crystal Palace, Barnet Copthall, Brentford
London Broncos: Charlton Athletic, Twickenham, Brentford
Harlequins: Twickenham
London Broncos: Twickenham

I may have missed a few.

Given some of these places are a good 2 hours' travel time apart, it's a bit like a club in the north running as follows (I've tried to keep the geography similar, in terms of travel time and direction):

Hunslet: Hunslet
Yourksire Titans: Doncaster, Barnsley, York, Todmorden
Yorkshire Warrions: Rotherham, Huddersfield, Todmorden
Huddersfield Town: Huddersfield
Yorkshire Warriors: Huddersfield.

How about: call the club the same thing, and play in the same place, for the next 30 years?

BTW, 9 of the Broncos squad are home-grown/southern players. Not bad, considering.

Edited by Wembley71, 17 March 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[eminence]

How about: call the club the same thing, and play in the same place, for the next 30 years?

The most sensible comment in this thread.

[Lobbygobbler]

Spot on comment IL (Wigan) had to give his shareholding away in the end, dumping London Broncos in the championship would kill the club off and is a non starter.

What the Broncos need is a professional marketeer who knows London inside out, it has the potential however very few in the catchment area know that the club is there little alone when they play a home match.A good example of how to build up a fan base is to follow what the Dragons did in Perpignan for the first 2 years they brought in a professional company to arrange press conferences and a lunch for the local press/radio and TV a few days before each home match and followed it up by a function for the media on match days it became a must go to event.Even though London is vast it needs a concentrated effort to woo the media.

My guess is that they will move if they have a decent gate at either Leyton or Gillingham neither of which is a solution for them the stoop is by far the best venue for rugby in west london.

The Stoop is the worst location for maximising fans because firstly there are no local RL fans bar my mate who recently moved to St Margarets, and secondly because it is not easy to get to from Central London esp on a Sunday

[bowes]

The most sensible comment in this thread.

As long as that one place is somewhere better than Twickenham Stoop which has seen crowds half.

[bowes]

For me, that is a huge issue though. If their survival clings on SL, and they're only clinging on with the skin of their teeth, then they shouldn't be a SL club. SL shouldn't be a charity, and it shouldn't be afraid to take a step back from projects that aren't working to regroup. What's the point in throwing millions at a club each year doing the same thing? If they took a step back, they could regroup and come up with a better plan. At the moment they don't have to.

I don't buy that they'd be killed off either. If Crusaders, a club that was only two years old in SL, can build up enough interested fans in that time to reform then (in fact, they had TWO bids from the area), and Celtic had TWO bids from South Wales after they went under after only 3 years in the NLs and 1 in SL, then I'm pretty sure that London can survive or at least reform.

The money ploughed into London could probably fund 4 Championship clubs. If the RFL can somehow manage to bring in Toulouse (and somehow also manage to bring in some French TV cash to subsidise theirs and Catalans TV share), they could still manage an increase (albeit small) across the board AND fund development in London. £1.2m spread over four London clubs in the Championships (North London Skolars, West London Sharks, South London Storm and East London Broncos). Funding for a London academy side to continue in the SL academy league, and if they all get crowds of around 800, they're reaching just as many people as the original SL club did.

12 London derbies a year. Surely that will help build up some rivalries and interest.

I doubt we'd see 4 sides but having said that if Broncos moved to Leyton Orient would there be the grassroots support for a Championship 1 side in West London? Or does a lot come from elsewhere either in London or the Thames Valley (the latter of which could be served by a side in Oxford, a place that's wanted professional rugby a while but been blocked by the RFU unless they move up the leagues). The Gillingham match may be gauge interest for a potential move or more likely may be to drum up support for a future C1 Medway side (they've ruled themselves out for 2013 despite being pencilled in by the RFL but will probably be there next expansion wave.)

[eminence]

As long as that one place is somewhere better than Twickenham Stoop which has seen crowds half.

I think the former Quins RL having poorly performing teams for the majority of the time during the current stint at The Stoop may be a little bit of a factor in the crowd decline.

[guess who]

The current stadium isn't 60 miles from central London, so no. But the v small existing fanbase (of which I am one) shouldn't be the priority, as the club is not currently financially viable.

I never said it was. But with your idea it could be.

As i also said, what away to treat the fans.

[Northern Sol]

Which side are going to bid for this other than Broncos?

Can we expect a Skolars bid? Unlikely in the extreme when they are one of the weakest CC1 sides.

More chance of Hunslet bidding for Rhinos spot.

[Southern Softie]

The first thing that needs to happen is for people in London to be made aware of the existence of two codes of rugby. Is that the job of the London Broncos or the RFL?

[The Parksider]

The RFL should commit to a London side as policy for SL

This would seem to be the main basis for the policy....

"If you ask Purdham, a loyal servant to rugby league in the capital, or Leeds coach Brian McDermott, who spent years fighting the fight as Quins head coach, you will get an emphatic answer. "That squad has so much London talent coming through and when I first started there wasn't any," Purdham tells me.

His argument is that if there were no Super League club for London youth to aspire to, then the game may never have developed a Louis McCarthy-Scarsbrook, a Will Sharp or a Dan Sarginson. The former two are now earning the bigger bucks at Saints and Hull FC having been developed in London, while Sarginson can be a real star if he fulfils his potential and fills out his frame.

Purdham argues that if you take Super League from London, you will just drain another growing talent pool, the development of which is largely down to the tireless work of the Broncos and London Skolars' community staff. In short, it is easy to knock the London project without delving right down from the Super League surface to the grass roots to see its commitment to the rugby league cause".

It could also be SKY value their inclusion, whether that's worth £1M a year extra or £1 a year extra I don't know.

It could be they help RL have a greater commercial value and promotional value preventing it being a "northern sport" in the eyes of people, whether that's worth £1M a year extra or £1 a year extra I don't know.

[The Parksider]

1. The franchise should be put out to tender if our crowds don't increase to 5k+

2. The club has always felt disorganised, badly thought out and inconsistent.

3. With the right business plan the new club could easily run with the Sky money behind it.

1. As has been pointed out the only taker, Mr, Hughes has the club.

2. I'd like to hear their CEO's right of reply to that.

3. Several SL clubs with bigger gate income don't have the "right business plan" only a plan that generates a significant loss when running at full salary cap, and they balance the book with directors loans.

I don't agree one bit London are simply badly managed. They are underfunded and struggling, but the RFL/SLE seem to take the view that London are worth persevering with for the added value they give to the game. It also seems RFL would be happy if as you say the club could at least manage 5,000 gates. That's not far behind several SL and prospective norther SL clubs.

What would be the point of chopping off the top of an important player production pyramid (after all the established northern clubs can't produce enough quality british players) so I don't agree with Wellsy that London should go back to the Championship or several London clubs should be created in the championship.

But that leaves the million dollar question, is an SL club important to help develop an RL culture in the south and attract skilled rugby playing youngsters to the game???

As for your question in terms of the business, London can't be franchised if there's no takers and there's no takers apart from one because the club is purely a "Loss Leader" for Rugby League in and around the capital.