56 replies to this topic

[Tom Coates]

Read the full article from Monday's League Express here.

[Blotto]

Doesn't say anything about how it really came about, typical hot air hackery

[cookey]

Doesn't say how they managed to get a Licence through the RFL,with these 'liabilities' hanging over them.Surely someone at the RFL should have been aware - they pay themselves an awful lot of money yet both Crusaders and Bulls got Licences,any responsibility?

[Ant]

Doesn't say how they managed to get a Licence through the RFL,with these 'liabilities' hanging over them.Surely someone at the RFL should have been aware - they pay themselves an awful lot of money yet both Crusaders and Bulls got Licences,any responsibility?

All businesses have liabilities. In fact all of us have liabilities, some large some small.
Do you have a mortgage? Thats a liability that could, theoretically, be called in at any time. Do you have an overdraft? Liability. Credit Card? liability.

The only issue is that one of the liabilities, previously being services in an acceptable manor, got called in. It was, in effect, an unexpected and very large bill that wasnt expected.

Some people cant see the facts for their blinkers.

[Maximus Decimus]

Doesn't say how they managed to get a Licence through the RFL,with these 'liabilities' hanging over them.Surely someone at the RFL should have been aware - they pay themselves an awful lot of money yet both Crusaders and Bulls got Licences,any responsibility?

Yet another person who doesn't understand licenses.

We have no idea how many other clubs are on the brink and how many clubs have narrowly avoided situations like this one. If the RFL dismissed clubs for having speculative finances they might have only had 6 clubs left.

You can question how they were given a 'B' but anybody who thinks that Bradford would have ever been dropped, or that licensing even suggests that they should have been is living in cloud cuckoo land.

People have quickly forgotten that Wakefield went into administration just last summer. They were given a license but for some reason people expected the RFL to drop Bradford instead, a club that averages 13,000 fans and replace them with one that gets 4,500.

[Maximus Decimus]

All businesses have liabilities. In fact all of us have liabilities, some large some small.
Do you have a mortgage? Thats a liability that could, theoretically, be called in at any time. Do you have an overdraft? Liability. Credit Card? liability.

The only issue is that one of the liabilities, previously being services in an acceptable manor, got called in. It was, in effect, an unexpected and very large bill that wasnt expected.

Some people cant see the facts for their blinkers.

Exactly, had their overdraft not been pulled, we might never have heard of this situation. Who honestly knows how many other clubs would be in the same boat if the same happened to them.

[BulldogBurt]

Exactly, had their overdraft not been pulled, we might never have heard of this situation. Who honestly knows how many other clubs would be in the same boat if the same happened to them.

The article states that the overdraft was 'only' £285,000 though, and the Bulls need £1M to survive so I think this was coming anyway tbh.

[Maximus Decimus]

The article states that the overdraft was 'only' £285,000 though, and the Bulls need £1M to survive so I think this was coming anyway tbh.

But presumably they've had this debt for some time and prior to this were still £700k in debt. I'm not a financial expert by any means but most clubs are in debt aren't they, what triggered the sudden urgency to pay it off?

[Honor James]

Doesn't say anything about how it really came about, typical hot air hackery

There is always, of course, just the shade of a possibility that a person's reading comprehension skills may not be quite as well honed as he or she believes they are.

Although heaven forbid that I, or anyone else, should suggest anything of the kind about anyone in particular on this forum ....... or for that matter, about anyone at all in modern-day Britain, so well educated we all are nowadays in the use of our own language.

For my part, however, though I read it twice to make sure I had not read him wrong in any detail, I found that a modicum of concentration enabled my reading-in the considerable, but necessary amount of `unspoken obvious' required to complete the piece. That is, to complete it for publication as a single page column in a Monday morning sports newspaper rather than, for example, a 10 page pamphlet or a university dissertation on the subject.

Maybe if you read it again you will find the same.

:-)

Edited by Honor James, 05 April 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[BulldogBurt]

But presumably they've had this debt for some time and prior to this were still £700k in debt. I'm not a financial expert by any means but most clubs are in debt aren't they, what triggered the sudden urgency to pay it off?

I just meant it's obviously not just a case of the bank removing the overdraft causing ALL the problems, otherwise they would only need £285K to survive. The £700K RFL debt was paid off as part of the Odsal sale IIRC, there are obviously others which I don't pretend to have knowledge of, but it seems to me that even with a £285K o/draft in place, the Bulls would have struggled to stave of this crisis.

[Maximus Decimus]

I just meant it's obviously not just a case of the bank removing the overdraft causing ALL the problems, otherwise they would only need £285K to survive. The £700K RFL debt was paid off as part of the Odsal sale IIRC, there are obviously others which I don't pretend to have knowledge of, but it seems to me that even with a £285K o/draft in place, the Bulls would have struggled to stave of this crisis.

Of course, but we still don't know how many other clubs are in this boat and how many others would be tipped over the edge if something like that happened.

The idea that the Bulls shouldn't have been given a license makes no sense for this reason. If being a sound business was the only criteria, we'd have a league of about 5 teams.

[Ant]

Now, there in you touch my cynicism...in that I wonder if this magical £1M is what the Bulls actually need to keep going, or if they are just asking everyone else to pay off their debts in one fell swoop with a bit of emotional blackmail...

£285k for the overdraft
£250k for the tax bill (payable over 3 years, not immediately needed)
£600k for the Harris saga.

Are the rough numbers I am seeing on various threads. One isnt immediate. One isnt new, the other is the sudden trigger.

Hence my cynicism.

[BulldogBurt]

Of course, but we still don't know how many other clubs are in this boat and how many others would be tipped over the edge if something like that happened.

The idea that the Bulls shouldn't have been given a license makes no sense for this reason. If being a sound business was the only criteria, we'd have a league of about 5 teams.

Aye, I was just commenting on the o/draft part, not the RFL's part. Their remit shouldn't include telling clubs how to operate and this isn't the job of licensing either IMO, at the end of the day they have 14 spots in their competition to fill so if they get 14 s### applications they have to pick the 14 least s### ones! Licensing provides a more stable environment for clubs to improve and drive standards up

[marklaspalmas]

There is always, of course, just the shade of a possibility that a person's reading comprehension skills may not be quite as well honed as he or she believes they are.

Although heaven forbid that I, or anyone else, should suggest anything of the kind about anyone in particular on this forum ....... or for that matter, about anyone at all in modern-day Britain, so well educated we all are nowadays in the use of our own language.

For my part, however, though I read it twice to make sure I had not read him wrong in any detail, I found that a modicum of concentration enabled my reading-in the considerable, but necessary amount of `unspoken obvious' required to complete the piece. That is, to complete it for publication as a single page column in a Monday morning sports newspaper rather than, for example, a 10 page pamphlet or a university dissertation on the subject.

Maybe if you read it again you will find the same.

:-)

A patronising post. The article is over 1,500 words long. Ant has just summed it up in three lines.

[Honor James]

A patronising post. The article is over 1,500 words long. Ant has just summed it up in three lines.

He has ..... but in my view, Mark, he has summed it up incorrectly.

:-)

[Ant]

Like I said, "some people cant see the facts for their blinkers"

[Honor James]

Like I said, "some people cant see the facts for their blinkers"

;-)

I couldn't agree more, Ant ......

... is that `short for Anthony' or just Ant-for-short?

[Ant]

Short for.
What an odd question

[Maximus Decimus]

Aye, I was just commenting on the o/draft part, not the RFL's part. Their remit shouldn't include telling clubs how to operate and this isn't the job of licensing either IMO, at the end of the day they have 14 spots in their competition to fill so if they get 14 s### applications they have to pick the 14 least s### ones! Licensing provides a more stable environment for clubs to improve and drive standards up

I find it amazing that people cannot grasp this simple concept. Even on the Super League Back Chat show, we heard to same things mentioned and they are supposedly pundits of the game.

At the time, I pointed out that finances are only one aspect of licensing. There was no guarantee that Bradford were going to go bust but some would advocate that they should have lost a license in favour of Halifax. A competitive club averaging 13,000 replaced by one that would probably 4,500 purely because of finances?

This form of licensing would truly ruin the game. Should we replace Wigan with Leigh in 2015 if Wigan's finances are shaky?

[Honor James]

Short for.
What an odd question

No offence intended. Just being facetious .....it's been that kind of day.

And my patronising earlier posting?

Yes - Mark Las Palmas was right!

I was just defending a person who, I thought, did a good job with a pretty touchy subject. Sorry my thunder rolled over your unsuspecting head though, I don't often rumble but today I went ape. Probably because I'm aware how difficult it can be to skate on that kind of ice.

[Wow, those mixed up metaphors must knock Mrs Malaprop into a cocked hat]

Sure, the financial affairs of any organisation are more complicated than can possibly meet the average eye, but in the game of Rugby League they seem to be shrouded as well, in strange, fluffy folds of (presumably self-protective) mystery.

And whatever .....

as I see it, let's help the Bulls to stay alive if we can - those of us who want to. But if some can't or don't want to that's no reason for them to feel bad.

It's a free world and opinions vary.

:-)

Edited by Honor James, 05 April 2012 - 04:19 PM.