24 replies to this topic

[oldhamer]

With the massive gulf between SL and the rest, with the exception of Featherstones heroics against Cas on Saturday. There have been massive score differentials this weekend, which isn't good for the game or revenue streams. The fans of SL will not turn up to watch a one sided encounter, as the standard turnstyle price is too high due to many operational pressures i.e. ground rental/players salaries etc.

So what do I propose. Two ideas, but both on similar lines.

If a SL side draw a C1 side then 8 players from the 17 must have played at least 12 games in the U23s in the past 12 months from the fixture date.
If a SL side draw a CC side then 5 players from the 17 must have playes at least 12 games in the U23s in the past 12 months from the fixture date.
If a SL draw a SL side then open squads are allowed.

This would aid player development as a majority of U23s are British born players and a stepup into the first team for these players would be a major boost in their development. They would have to prove that they are worthy of a first team spot, and show what they can do. As normally, an U23 may never get that chance in a step up, as an Aussie/Kiwi on a NRL retirement plan normally occupy the position.

Or, Idea 2.

The SL clubs have to field a side that are in the same salary cap of either the CC or C1 side. So its upto them to go for 4/5 supestars and the rest U23s OR an average team made up similar abilities.


SL would moan as their revenue streams could be hampered as they could get beat in the cup, but its a competition that brigs the best out of the whole squad, not just the first team. It tests the capabilities of a coach, and with the games being more competitive, fans are more inclined to watch it.


Discuss.

[eclecticsheep]

A fairer distribution of central funding to raise the standard of NL and NL1 higher even if it means getting over our obsession with our antipodean neighbours for the short term...BECAUSE long term an overall raising of standards will achieve that aim I think! there is still imbalance in SL so more needs to be done to level the SL competitions playing field.
Reserve teams in NL1 from superleague, maybe even U23`s to "bring on" the players and make more games lower down the food chain and perhaps increase income for NL and NL1. trains cup reverts to a knockout cup for NL1 sides only and a similar one for NL sides only(2 cups) pre season start!
My aim and intent would to raise the standard from the bottom upwards...I do not see any other workable way to do it...Im all right jack superleague isnt helping presently!

On an aside, If Barrow and Oldham players had to endure the uniqueness of Whitebank, as well as the fans of both sides in the last round of the challenge cup THEN WHY NOT SAINTS???...Its where we are as unpalatable as it is (Undeveloped) but it would certainly be a memorable event in the history of the club, like the night match at sheddings v the aussies, If we won the toss???

[OldhamGal]

Because when we first asked the RFL if we could play at Whitebank they said yes but stipulated that no game against SL opposition could be hosted there.

[roughyedspud]

heard its being played at BP or switched to langtree

[oldhamer]

If money was distrubted to the lower leagues, the money would be spent on more than inflated players salaries, and that's not the answer in my book. And that's why SL is in the mess it's in at the moment. Clubs moving to new stadia to where they no longer own their own ground, yet rent at a ridiculous price, means less gameday income to the clubs in question as the stadium owners take every bean from drinks to food etc. And when clubs sell their product cheap like Huddersfield and Bradford did with low season ticket prices because crowds are falling, its only going to end one way - downwards. The whole game needs restructuring as the current set up doesnt work at club or international level. We are further behind the Aussies than we have been since the inception of SL.

[Tony Mac]

With the massive gulf between SL and the rest, with the exception of Featherstones heroics against Cas on Saturday. There have been massive score differentials this weekend, which isn't good for the game or revenue streams. The fans of SL will not turn up to watch a one sided encounter, as the standard turnstyle price is too high due to many operational pressures i.e. ground rental/players salaries etc.

So what do I propose. Two ideas, but both on similar lines.

If a SL side draw a C1 side then 8 players from the 17 must have played at least 12 games in the U23s in the past 12 months from the fixture date.
If a SL side draw a CC side then 5 players from the 17 must have playes at least 12 games in the U23s in the past 12 months from the fixture date.
If a SL draw a SL side then open squads are allowed.

This would aid player development as a majority of U23s are British born players and a stepup into the first team for these players would be a major boost in their development. They would have to prove that they are worthy of a first team spot, and show what they can do. As normally, an U23 may never get that chance in a step up, as an Aussie/Kiwi on a NRL retirement plan normally occupy the position.

Or, Idea 2.

The SL clubs have to field a side that are in the same salary cap of either the CC or C1 side. So its upto them to go for 4/5 supestars and the rest U23s OR an average team made up similar abilities.


SL would moan as their revenue streams could be hampered as they could get beat in the cup, but its a competition that brigs the best out of the whole squad, not just the first team. It tests the capabilities of a coach, and with the games being more competitive, fans are more inclined to watch it.


Discuss.

Hi Oldhamer

A good first stab at trying to make the Cup games more appealing. Don't think SL clubs would want to give any advantage to a CC1 or especially a CC club if it might contribute to their downfall in the Challenge Cup. Having said that I do think that there is a case for SL to only have the option of playing the same number of overseas players as we in the lower divisions are allowed. That would certainly open the way for some of the youngsters at the SL clubs to show their credentials. It should also ensure that there are no crazy scores, the SL clubs should still triumph over their lower division opponents and it could indeed put some pressure on the SL clubs to ensure they have some youngsters on their books.

As I said Oldhamer, a good first stab and, you never know, maybe the RFL will look into this sort of thing, although I won't be holding my breath!


Tony Mac
Chin Up, Chest Out

[Yonner]

Hi Oldhamer

A good first stab at trying to make the Cup games more appealing. Don't think SL clubs would want to give any advantage to a CC1 or especially a CC club if it might contribute to their downfall in the Challenge Cup. Having said that I do think that there is a case for SL to only have the option of playing the same number of overseas players as we in the lower divisions are allowed. That would certainly open the way for some of the youngsters at the SL clubs to show their credentials. It should also ensure that there are no crazy scores, the SL clubs should still triumph over their lower division opponents and it could indeed put some pressure on the SL clubs to ensure they have some youngsters on their books.

As I said Oldhamer, a good first stab and, you never know, maybe the RFL will look into this sort of thing, although I won't be holding my breath!


Tony Mac
Chin Up, Chest Out

I think its fair to say that "No" club outside the SL will ever again reach Wembley .... so why not emulate previous Double header type Grand Finals and have minor and major Challenge Cup played for on the day at the venue ... TBH I've been to every RL CC final for the last 30 years and 50-60 % of the fans appear to have no allegiance to the finalists and are true RL fans ...

The draws could be made at the same time and ties played on the same days ... interest in the RL cup would be revitalised and enshrined for future generations as "The" one all southerners have heard of played by those lot from up'north.

[oldhamer]

The Challenge Cup is a magical cup competition and is being devalued because of the greed and selfish attitudes that have been allowed to grow in our game since the inception of SL. Its that not long ago that Oldham could topple the mighty Wigan in cup competitions AND be in a lower division. Big differentials were not a common occurance in the sport, as most games were competitive, and a few upsets along the way. Sadly, the way it is set up at present, soley means its a SL trophy and the rest can be content with the Northern Rail cup, which in my opionion is a sell out. If the game had improved itself at international level, then it could be classed a success, but we are further behind the Aussies than pre SL.

The RFL and SL are interested in only a few things. The current SL clubs and expansionist areas. Nothing else matters.

[Yonner]

The Challenge Cup is a magical cup competition and is being devalued because of the greed and selfish attitudes that have been allowed to grow in our game since the inception of SL. Its that not long ago that Oldham could topple the mighty Wigan in cup competitions AND be in a lower division. Big differentials were not a common occurance in the sport, as most games were competitive, and a few upsets along the way. Sadly, the way it is set up at present, soley means its a SL trophy and the rest can be content with the Northern Rail cup, which in my opionion is a sell out. If the game had improved itself at international level, then it could be classed a success, but we are further behind the Aussies than pre SL.

The RFL and SL are interested in only a few things. The current SL clubs and expansionist areas. Nothing else matters.

So why not two competitions run in parallel one for SL and one for everyone else ... both played on the day down at Wembley ... few logistic issues but surely no more than the Warrington treble header or the Millenium weekends ..... just imagine an Oldham V Halifax and Leeds V Saints finals day ..the place would be rockin !!!

[Roughyedz]

With the massive gulf between SL and the rest, with the exception of Featherstones heroics against Cas on Saturday. There have been massive score differentials this weekend, which isn't good for the game or revenue streams. The fans of SL will not turn up to watch a one sided encounter, as the standard turnstyle price is too high due to many operational pressures i.e. ground rental/players salaries etc.

So what do I propose. Two ideas, but both on similar lines.

If a SL side draw a C1 side then 8 players from the 17 must have played at least 12 games in the U23s in the past 12 months from the fixture date.
If a SL side draw a CC side then 5 players from the 17 must have playes at least 12 games in the U23s in the past 12 months from the fixture date.
If a SL draw a SL side then open squads are allowed.

This would aid player development as a majority of U23s are British born players and a stepup into the first team for these players would be a major boost in their development. They would have to prove that they are worthy of a first team spot, and show what they can do. As normally, an U23 may never get that chance in a step up, as an Aussie/Kiwi on a NRL retirement plan normally occupy the position.

Or, Idea 2.

The SL clubs have to field a side that are in the same salary cap of either the CC or C1 side. So its upto them to go for 4/5 supestars and the rest U23s OR an average team made up similar abilities.


SL would moan as their revenue streams could be hampered as they could get beat in the cup, but its a competition that brigs the best out of the whole squad, not just the first team. It tests the capabilities of a coach, and with the games being more competitive, fans are more inclined to watch it.


Discuss.

The whole point of any CUP draw in ANY sport is that it is an OPEN draw .... If the club drawn at home are unable to play on their home meadow for whatever reason, state of pitch , state of facilities for speccies, players and press, or ground capacity, the club knows the rules when they enter the competition, if you dont like them, the answer is simple DO NOT ENTER. as for fans of lower league clubs complaining , simple do not go to the match if you dont like the rules. In fact go watch a rah rah match or even a football match. You never hear any of the amatuer clubs complaining when they draw a proffesional team do you ????? As for the Rugby League Challenge Handicap Cup that you seem to be suggesting "Oldhamer" ;If you are going to try and make it a Handicap Cup why not go the whole hog and have the Super League teams play with six players tied together in pairs like a 3 legged race ....that would even it up dont you think ????????? Although having said that the Super league players are so superior in skill and fitness they would still probably win

[oldhamer]

So the challenge cup works in its present format then? Huge score differentials are good for the sport? Thats why crowds were really low at most games at the weekend - and will continue to fall.
The clue is in the name 'competition' not walkovers. What I suggested was to increase competition which is good for the sport and it would aid the devlopment of young British talent, which is sadly missing at most SL clubs.

Edited by oldhamer, 19 April 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Yonner]

I agree with Roughyedz in that the Challenge Cup should not be an handicap contest ...which is why its no use any team outside of the SL entering and holding any illusions to getting to Wembly barring an incredible set of circumstances.... even this year our tilt at the Northern rail was held up as a chance to play a few warm up games ... we were not given a realistic chance of getting to that final either.

Every year the amateur teams that got through to the first round against the big boys saw it has their day in the Sun and they still do !!! ... but now its those teams in the Championship and CC 1 that see it as a moneyspinner and absolutely nothing else ...at least thats how it feels to me ... a real shame .

Don't get me wrong its always been that way for the teams at the lower end of the 2nd div ... but time was you could actually give the teams nearer the top a first half to think about .... not now.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

It's up to us and all those below S L to improve. We've been up there before no reason why we eventually can't be up there again. There have always been high differentials it is nothing new.

Edited by The Art of Hand and Foot, 19 April 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[oldhamer]

I agree its up to us to improve, but the entire make up of the game makes it more or less impossible. Something has to change. Whether its down to seeding the teams, or more money for the lower leagues to help bridge the gap. Under current rules, SL teams get a nice slice of money for the development of players i.e scholarships. Championship and Championship 1 clubs don't get anywhere near that - and most have to fund it themselves like Oldham, or not bother like Rochdale

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

But that's why we have a league format as well. The cup is the cup and fiddling with it will undermine it's history and appeal.

Edited by The Art of Hand and Foot, 19 April 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[Antisuperleague]

Time for all Rugby League clubs outside of souperdooperleeg to break away and return to a truly competitive competition run by fair minded people.

[Robthegardener.]

Oh just let stay things stay as they are ' period ' and let the Aussies laugh at us some more doh!!!!!!!!!!

I was chatting to Daz Lock recently and.............blah blah blah

[Robthegardener.]

Time for all Rugby League clubs outside of souperdooperleeg to break away and return to a truly competitive competition run by fair minded people.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Time for all Rugby League clubs outside of souperdooperleeg to break away and return to a truly competitive competition run by fair minded people.

Will be extremly competitive with no money.

[oldhamer]

I dont think there is any money outside the SL anyway.