34 replies to this topic

[Blue Monkey]

Phill’s comments:

Interesting too that reports suggest the gate at Barton yesterday was appallingly low. So bad that it appears the City Reds have declined to give an official gate figure, the only number I've seen being a grossly optimistic "est." of 4,500 in League Express. Divide that by 4 and you'd be about right from what I've been told. And that was for an all SL tie!



My comments:

Yes there's no mention of the attendance figure for the Salford v Leeds match at Barton on the Pinks' website, BUT!!! Having accessed the M.E.N.'s website report for Sunday's game, I happily now paste below three consecutive fans' comments relating to the club's obvious reluctance to publish what we can only assume to be an embarrassing crowd figure.


(1)
A better performance from the Reds but a 7th defeat in 10 appearances at the new stadium is unfortunately not the sort of stat that will retain existing fans let alone attract new fans.

(2)
Not that there were many existing fans there to watch, or so I have been told. It appears the gate was so bad that the club doesn't even want to announce an official figure.

(3)
1,200 there is a TOTAL DISGRACE Mr. Wilkinson!!!



All I would say in response to the above three sets of comments is,

DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS!!!

[PhillH]

Spending £20m+ of council tax payers money to the effect of taking Salfrod RLFC out of Salford in the name of social engineering is one of the most shameful things to hit the area during my lifetime.

Makes about as much sense as the Chapel Street traffic calming measures,

Not to mention the irony that a lot of that £20m will fall on M27 residents, whose own team as yet are supposed to be content with the council providing no more than a couple of grand of sponsorship a year. We wait and hope for something more substantive to finally emerge re; Agecroft of course.

Are people honestly surprised by the gates at Barton being well below the supposed target of 8,000? Totally ill conceived and ill executed. It will end up with Sale Sharks dominating and RL being a minor side show. What a great reflection of our area's identity and heritage that will be. NOT.

[duffymoon]

Wonder what would happen if Brian Kennedy offered to buy Salford Councils share in the stadium?

[juliancaine]

http://www.salford.g...l_Site_Plan.pdf

salford council should have built a community stadium for both swinton, salford, and other sporting teams to use, the ideal site was the old wardley high school site, i seem to remember a few years ago the idea was mooted but was poo pooed due to green belt issues, but once again when it suits salford council they ignore that and are in the process of upgrading facilitys there. IT wouldnt take much to improve the new facilitys so that swinton could play there take a look at the plans and see what you think?. My own personal opinion is that agecroft will never happen there appears to be a total lack of funding and/or political will of the powers that be to help swinton.

[Jonty]

Wonder what would happen if Brian Kennedy offered to buy Salford Councils share in the stadium?

That'd be very sad for rugby league, but also an indictment of the inability of Salford to capture the imagination of people in the area through the new stadium. Saying that, some Sale season ticket holders that I know aren't happy about moving from Stockport, and fear that the whole Friday night experience that the cuckoos have built up will be lost as people are put off travelling over the bridge, rather than around south Manchester/Stockport.

This is one instance where I'd like to see the RFL step in and buy a share in the ground. The location is strategically important for rugby league, and without a doubt, as soon as Sale move in it will often be referred to by the media as "Sale's ground" or "Salford City Reds, who ground share with Sale Sharks". With BBC Sport now two miles away up the canal, I think it's important that this doesn't happen, and people realise that the project was driven by rugby league and not by a union club (albeit one now with a staff make-up that is ex-RFL and ex-Salford City Reds in the community/marketing dept.)

I hope Kennedy ends up at Rangers, and that Sale drops off his radar.

[Blue Monkey]

http://www.salford.gov.uk/d/St_Ambrose_Barlow_Final_Site_Plan.pdf

salford council should have built a community stadium for both swinton, salford, and other sporting teams to use, the ideal site was the old wardley high school site, i seem to remember a few years ago the idea was mooted but was poo pooed due to green belt issues, but once again when it suits salford council they ignore that and are in the process of upgrading facilitys there. IT wouldnt take much to improve the new facilitys so that swinton could play there take a look at the plans and see what you think?. My own personal opinion is that agecroft will never happen there appears to be a total lack of funding and/or political will of the powers that be to help swinton.

"Salford Council should have built a community stadium for both Swinton, Salford and other sporting teams to use..."

So that's your opinion is it? Fair enough, but it's definitely NOT mine and many more Lions fans too I dare say. What we need is what is currently being developed on our OWN patch (at Agecroft) not some totally unrelated venue OUTSIDE M27, Swinton & Pendlebury. Salford City Reds should really change their name to Eccles Town Reds since they arrived in M30. They can't honestly call themselves "Salford" now surely.


"My own personal opinion is that Agecroft will never happen there appears to be a total lack of funding and/or political will of the powers that be to help Swinton."

Will never happen??? Oh ye of little faith!!!, it's a good job we don't all think along those lines is it?
Roll on Agecroft, roll on, is what I firmly say.

[Barnie]

"Salford Council should have built a community stadium for both Swinton, Salford and other sporting teams to use..."

So that's your opinion is it? Fair enough, but it's definitely NOT mine and many more Lions fans too I dare say. What we need is what is currently being developed on our OWN patch (at Agecroft) not some totally unrelated venue OUTSIDE M27, Swinton & Pendlebury. Salford City Reds should really change their name to Eccles Town Reds since they arrived in M30. They can't honestly call themselves "Salford" now surely.


"My own personal opinion is that Agecroft will never happen there appears to be a total lack of funding and/or political will of the powers that be to help Swinton."

Will never happen??? Oh ye of little faith!!!, it's a good job we don't all think along those lines is it?
Roll on Agecroft, roll on, is what I firmly say.

I can see both sides of the Agecroft argument. I am honestly 50-50 in my views. I would love it to happen, but I just cant see it. Lack of a planning application and or any news leads the average person to pour scorn on the whole project. And when it does happen I honestly believe that we wont get many more fans than we do now. We have lost the best part of two generations of support. People dont have the money they had a few years ago, and family life is now more important to most people than a few beers whilst watching Swinton on a Sunday. Salford are the prime example of a new ground not meaning more people going. I am looking forward to being proven wrong though.

[Tess]

I thought we were supposed to be moving into our new home at Agecroft in April 2012!! Oh dear. I too fear it will never happen in my lifetime. I've resigned myself to LSV now.

[PhillH]

I can see both sides of the Agecroft argument. I am honestly 50-50 in my views. I would love it to happen, but I just cant see it. Lack of a planning application and or any news leads the average person to pour scorn on the whole project. And when it does happen I honestly believe that we wont get many more fans than we do now. We have lost the best part of two generations of support. People dont have the money they had a few years ago, and family life is now more important to most people than a few beers whilst watching Swinton on a Sunday. Salford are the prime example of a new ground not meaning more people going. I am looking forward to being proven wrong though.

What choice is there? What would the future hold for Swinton Lions WITHOUT a new ground? Surely the answer is MORE generations of lost support and ultimately certain extinction as the last remnents from 20 years ago at Station Road drift away or die off.

There are only two options available to keep the club alive in the medium term. Either reinvent its identity and target a new audience (already tried to a great extent at Bury and contemplated but not implemented at Darwen), or; get a new ground which enables the club to reconnect with the community whose name it continues to bear and still provides the majority of support to this day. If the former route were the best, it would've been done by now and the name of Swinton erased.

You are right that we cannot see any tangible evidence of progress. This is particularly frustrating from the point of view that supporters have little or no opportunity to create pressure on the powers that be. I hope this is a case of John Kidd learning that there are only so many times you can use the message of "jam tomorrow" without hard evidence, before the credibility of the scheme crashes down and words start to sound hollow and promises empty. Hopefully work is still ongoing behind the scenes but with no more "big announcements" until there is something tangible to report.

And you are absolutely right that a new ground in itself will not be a utopia with 10,000 people banging the door down to get in. A lot of other aspects need serious attention in order to reach out to the community that has been neglected not just for the last 20 years but for a good amount of time before that, too. And Salford City Reds have got a lot of things wrong in moving to Barton and are now reaping their rewards. Best to learn from someone else's errors than to make them yourself!

[Blue Monkey]

And Salford City Reds have got a lot of things wrong in moving to Barton and are now reaping their rewards. Best to learn from someone else's errors than to make them yourself!

You're dead right Phill about learning from the Pinks' mistakes in moving to Barton (Eccles), i.e., outside their true historic territory, Salford proper.

[duffymoon]

I dont think there is any doubt that its Agecroft or bust for our club! remember JKs words at the meeting at Moorside SC "there is no plan B"! I firmly believe that there is a great deal developing behind the scenes but unfortunately things dont always go as wed want.Having made a statement whereby it was hoped to start work on the stadium no later than Jan 2 2012 which obviously hasnt materialised its easy to understand why the club is reluctant to impart any further information until cast iron guarantees if there is such a thing are in place.Maybe the odd update on the website would be beneficial but im sure I speak for us all when i say that the most frustrating aspect of all this is that as of yet we cant do anything to help bring our dream to reality.

[PhillH]

I dont think there is any doubt that its Agecroft or bust for our club! remember JKs words at the meeting at Moorside SC "there is no plan B"! I firmly believe that there is a great deal developing behind the scenes but unfortunately things dont always go as wed want.Having made a statement whereby it was hoped to start work on the stadium no later than Jan 2 2012 which obviously hasnt materialised its easy to understand why the club is reluctant to impart any further information until cast iron guarantees if there is such a thing are in place.Maybe the odd update on the website would be beneficial but im sure I speak for us all when i say that the most frustrating aspect of all this is that as of yet we cant do anything to help bring our dream to reality.

Other stadium builds have shown that a more open approach is not only feasible, but if done "right" can bring major benefits. Regarding the January 2012 date for the start of construction, the club made a rod for its own back - the statement wasn't necessary and clearly not properly thought through, particularly as the process of getting there includes many steps that are outside the club's direct control. Everybody knows it won't be easy, there should be no embarrassment in saying as much, so why not just say - we want to get a ground constructed, this is how we intend to do it, hurdles to overcome are A, B, C, D.... please help where you can...?

IF the club is indeed still doing its bit (maybe it is, I don't know) there's nothing to hide and potentially a lot to gain... start the process of reaching out to the community before the ground is built.

[Little Lion Man]

I think it is fair to say that other people/businesses would be involved in the building of any stadium. This is another point at which business clashes with sport (the two seldom compatable from a supporters point of view). When it comes to 'business' it is rarely carried out in public and often prejudicial to do so. Unless we supporters are going to be funding such a deal then we cannot expect to be privy to such information. Lets not underestimate the effects of the recent recession, how much longer it is lasting and how this has impacted on the money available for rugby. Lets keep positive and do the things we can do for the club. We have a new mayor..... Lets make him work?

[mark richardson]

I think it is fair to say that other people/businesses would be involved in the building of any stadium. This is another point at which business clashes with sport (the two seldom compatable from a supporters point of view). When it comes to 'business' it is rarely carried out in public and often prejudicial to do so. Unless we supporters are going to be funding such a deal then we cannot expect to be privy to such information. Lets not underestimate the effects of the recent recession, how much longer it is lasting and how this has impacted on the money available for rugby. Lets keep positive and do the things we can do for the club. We have a new mayor..... Lets make him work?

Dont come on here talking sense and being reasonable please.

[PaulT]

I think it is fair to say that other people/businesses would be involved in the building of any stadium. This is another point at which business clashes with sport (the two seldom compatable from a supporters point of view). When it comes to 'business' it is rarely carried out in public and often prejudicial to do so. Unless we supporters are going to be funding such a deal then we cannot expect to be privy to such information. Lets not underestimate the effects of the recent recession, how much longer it is lasting and how this has impacted on the money available for rugby. Lets keep positive and do the things we can do for the club. We have a new mayor..... Lets make him work?

Well Ian Stewert was the honorary president of the M27 Sports and Community Project so you would think he would fully support a new stadium.

[PhillH]

We have a new mayor..... Lets make him work?

Well Ian Stewert was the honorary president of the M27 Sports and Community Project so you would think he would fully support a new stadium.

The very reason Ian Stewart (a Salford City Reds supporter by the way) was prepared to take on said role was due to his realisation that the need for a community stadium in M27 was populist, compatible with his party's agenda and would bring benefits that went beyond Swinton Lions. Essentially - a demonstration that the community wanted it, particularly the good guys in the community such as education leaders. This occurred not by a sudden flash of inspiration on Mr Stewart's personal behalf, but due to a lot of hard work by the project team getting out into the community, making the needed links, building the case and putting it before Mr Stewart.

i.e. It was total openness and doing the work to build the case and demonstrate the level of support for that case in the broadest terms that made the then MP for Eccles want to work. A covert Swinton Lions centric agenda would've had far less impact and most probably got nowhere.

Thankfully the project was successful in getting some key messages across to key people which changed the way the issue of Swinton Lions exile was being perceived and hopefully some of that sentiment is still being built upon today. The step that is still missing is the link from "jaw jaw" to bricks and mortar. To that end. if things were being done more openly I firmly believe the chances of success would be greater. Still, we wait and we hope.

[mark richardson]

Do you like Mr Stewart Phil? Do you think he would be a good man to get back on board?
He seems like a key figure to me now.

[PaulT]

What makes you think he's a Salford fan Phil?

[PhillH]

Do you like Mr Stewart Phil? Do you think he would be a good man to get back on board?
He seems like a key figure to me now.

*Like* is a bit strong a word to use with regards to a politician, but I will go so far as to say I was both shocked and saddened when Ian Stewart was effectively deselected in favour of Hazel Blears when the number of local Westminster seats was reduced from 3 to 2, as I felt it reflected pretty badly on the state of democracy in the area.

I certainly hope Ian Stewart will prove to be a more effective leader of Salford City Council than John Merry, particularly in terms of willingness to listen to people and hopefully respect localism rather than being dictatorial. It would be particularly nice to see the back of "IN Salford" place branding.

Hopefully too when Ian Stewart admitted in his acceptance speech that the Salford Labour group have made mistakes, one of the things he had in mind was their failure to proactively back the M27 Sports and Community Project when myriad stakeholders were lined up behind it. To be fair to Ian Stewart, he did listen to the case put before him apparently with an open mind, took the role of Honorary President, opened the right doors, tried to persuade Mssrs Merry and Lancaster from a pretty bleak starting point to see the issue of Swinton Lions exile through the eyes of the community rather than through the prism of their historic clash of egos with Malcolm White.

At the time he had no direct power over the functions of local government - now thats all changed. Trevor Barton was of huge assistance to M27SCP and got involved in many meetings with Ian Stewart, hopefully the irony of Swinton Lions currently having to play at the LSV will not be lost on Ian Stewart.

We are approaching the point where the community needs to challenge both Ian Stewart and John Kidd along similar lines, i.e.: We have heard the words and those sound fine, but where is the DELIVERY? It is both desperately needed and long overdue!!

[mark richardson]

Lets hope he delivers then. He does seem a decent man.