71 replies to this topic

[PhillH]

Dual registration players can be a mixed blessing, but even if there were no such players in the squad Steve McCormack would still have to face the problem of how to keep fringe players match fit with no reserve side.

As for having amnesia on the relative merits of Dale Cunniffe and Andy Gorski, that's a strange one as I can remember back to both players time at Leigh. Personally I've always preferred Gorski and feel he's not had a proper chance this season, yes he was rusty on the team patterns when returning from injury but that would quickly improve if he was allowed a few games. I would also personally have selected Lee Wingfield ahead of Cunniffe. Steve McCormack has clearly seen it differently on this one and at the moment his view concurs with yours, Mark. We will see now if the coach stays true to his stated policy of picking players based on the form of their last performance, because if he does there ought to be several changes against Halifax.

[bigtony]

So who in your opinion would You drop ??,also wingy as retired

Edited by bigtony, 18 May 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[mark richardson]

Dual registration players can be a mixed blessing, but even if there were no such players in the squad Steve McCormack would still have to face the problem of how to keep fringe players match fit with no reserve side.

As for having amnesia on the relative merits of Dale Cunniffe and Andy Gorski, that's a strange one as I can remember back to both players time at Leigh. Personally I've always preferred Gorski and feel he's not had a proper chance this season, yes he was rusty on the team patterns when returning from injury but that would quickly improve if he was allowed a few games. I would also personally have selected Lee Wingfield ahead of Cunniffe. Steve McCormack has clearly seen it differently on this one and at the moment his view concurs with yours, Mark. We will see now if the coach stays true to his stated policy of picking players based on the form of their last performance, because if he does there ought to be several changes against Halifax.

Not really bothered how they played for leigh. Holroyd was awesome at Halifax,so what. Id challenge you to have seen cunniffe play regularly at leigh too. He played about half a dozen games for them over several seasons.
We play bad in one game and its the end of the world. Drop our best tackler bar none to me equals bad idea.
Gorski is a good player too, never mentioned him in my argument. Maybe he is still injured. Or perhaps we should just put this down to getting beat away by a good team at a ground where we always struggle?

[PhillH]

So who in your opinion would You drop ??,also wingy as retired

Thanks to Mark Stephens posting it on this forum I was aware of Lee Wingfield's retirement, not that the club itself has done anything at all to let the supporters know(!) which doesn't reflect well in my opinion, particularly as we are talking about the captain who lifted the Championship trophy only last season.

From the perspective of players that have not been in the side recently, if they don't get a chance after the showing at Keighley they will naturally question if there is any realistic prospect of getting in the team barring an injury crisis.

For instance Sam Reay didn't do a lot wrong against very high quality opposition at Huddersfield, so if Steve McCormack sticks to his selection policy and does fair by Reay he ought to get a chance ahead of Tom Armstrong who had a shocker at Keighley.

Gavin Dodd did well at Hunslet but his defence is normally suspect against teams with the ability to test the Lions in wide areas and Halifax is one such team, as were Keighley. If Ian Mort is over his nose problem he ought to be back in.

Danny Meekin I feel has been very unlucky to have been left out for the last two games. A place should be found for him.

As previously mentioned there is Andy Gorski if fit and still available - a proven Championship quality forward.

And Rob Foxen, not on the wing though please.

All these players will be wondering - if I don't get a chance next week, is there much point staying around?

[PhillH]

Drop our best tackler bar none to me equals bad idea.

To you it equals a bad idea, to me it equals a good one. That's life. On our ratings of Mr Cunniffe we can but agree to disagree.

Clearly the coaching team at Leigh felt there were good reasons not to make Cunniffe more of a first team regular there, whereas Steve McCormack rates him higher and closer to your opinion.

On the other hand, I disagreed with the way Adam Higson was used at Leigh when he never got a settled position and was shunted between centre, second row and the wing. On that player's qualities I'd say Steve McCormack has got it right - play him at centre and keep him there.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

Edited by PhillH, 19 May 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[bigtony]

Steve McCormack is not going to leave his DR/loan props out so that means if hes going with 5 props ( 2 starting and 3 on bench ) mills,meekin,morrison,holland are fighting for the last 2 places,which i dont think he will ever leave mills out ( and that puzzles me ) morrison seems to be 1 of his fav players so im not sure he will leave him out.So meekin and holland are left out for x number of wks and as we saw with holland on thurs you dont keep that fittness/sharpness you need in this league.As for dale cunniffe he is a real work horse but with that comes penalties, he must give away at least 7/8 a game and this is what did him at leigh in my opinion,Steve McCormack as a tough job on his hands for the rest of the season keeping players happy

[Furryenzo]

Thanks to Mark Stephens posting it on this forum I was aware of Lee Wingfield's retirement, not that the club itself has done anything at all to let the supporters know(!) which doesn't reflect well in my opinion, particularly as we are talking about the captain who lifted the Championship trophy only last season.

From the perspective of players that have not been in the side recently, if they don't get a chance after the showing at Keighley they will naturally question if there is any realistic prospect of getting in the team barring an injury crisis.

For instance Sam Reay didn't do a lot wrong against very high quality opposition at Huddersfield, so if Steve McCormack sticks to his selection policy and does fair by Reay he ought to get a chance ahead of Tom Armstrong who had a shocker at Keighley.

Gavin Dodd did well at Hunslet but his defence is normally suspect against teams with the ability to test the Lions in wide areas and Halifax is one such team, as were Keighley. If Ian Mort is over his nose problem he ought to be back in.

Danny Meekin I feel has been very unlucky to have been left out for the last two games. A place should be found for him.

As previously mentioned there is Andy Gorski if fit and still available - a proven Championship quality forward.

And Rob Foxen, not on the wing though please.

All these players will be wondering - if I don't get a chance next week, is there much point staying around?

Its one of them, if a player has played well for 4/5 games, do you drop him the instance he has a bad one? or do you give him another game to get back on track? Armstrong has been outstanding all season, and cant really justify dropping him for having a shocker in a game we were never going to win. I do like sam reay and would like to see him given a shot, maybe even on the wing, as dodd despite finishing his tries well, hasnt had too much impact on the games.

[mark richardson]

Steve McCormack is not going to leave his DR/loan props out so that means if hes going with 5 props ( 2 starting and 3 on bench ) mills,meekin,morrison,holland are fighting for the last 2 places,which i dont think he will ever leave mills out ( and that puzzles me ) morrison seems to be 1 of his fav players so im not sure he will leave him out.So meekin and holland are left out for x number of wks and as we saw with holland on thurs you dont keep that fittness/sharpness you need in this league.As for dale cunniffe he is a real work horse but with that comes penalties, he must give away at least 7/8 a game and this is what did him at leigh in my opinion,Steve McCormack as a tough job on his hands for the rest of the season keeping players happy

We gave away 8 in total against keighley. If we are going to have discussions we must stick to fact.
Phil claims to have knowlegeof cunniffes appearances at leigh. Clearly an exaggeration much as your claims here! Do we know gorskis fit? No I dont think we do. Do we know macca will always pick the dual reg or loan players? No we dont.
Cunniffe is still only about 24 so no doubt he left leigh because he was way down the pecking order at a team then in a higher division packed with established quality.
Yes we all have our opinions of different players but lets not use opinion as fact when it clearly isnt to suit our arguments.

[bigtony]

Ive watched cunniffe for the last 5 yrs and he gives away more pens than most FACT,im not saying its right or wrong in fact if you try and stop him giving penalty away you will take away the way he plays.And time will tell with the DR/loan players but i guess unless the S/L clubs recall them they will be playing this friday

[mark richardson]

Ok tony its time you revealed you are really a leigh fan? I dont know how youve managed to watch a player who has appeared in leigh reserves,oldham rochdale and swinton and leigh first teams and you can say fact he gives away plenty penalties every time. You must have a remarkable memory to remember an ordinary second rower who has played all over ? Unless of course he was playing alongside another leigher?
Fact is in the last 3 games the most penalties we gave away is 10. So what you said isnt true. Fact.
I like dale. Think he is awesome and wont be persuaded otherwise particularly by exaggeration or Phil perfection only allowed h.

[bigtony]

You come across as very aggressive in your post lol, first and formost im a RL fan and ive never stated who i support but ive only missed 1 swinton game this season so make of that what u will

[duffymoon]

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Edited by duffymoon, 19 May 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[mark richardson]

You come across as very aggressive in your post lol, first and formost im a RL fan and ive never stated who i support but ive only missed 1 swinton game this season so make of that what u will

Sorry I never meant to come across as aggressive and if you knew me youd know thats not how I intended my post to sound.
I do stand by what I say however.
I do think that I have raised facts which both yourself and Phil have ignored for the sake of argument. Read into how I write that as you will and apologise for causing offence.
I feel loyalty and honesty towards the hard work of a player who is being maligned by opinion paraded as fact is totally unfair.

[bigtony]

Firstly i was joking about the aggression hence the lol at the end, secondly you dont know me, i have watched cunniffe over the last few years and i know what ive seen, he gives away pens more than most but that is what his game is about playing on the edge,thirdly if you look back since the DR have been at swinton, unless their SL club wants them then they have played for swinton and a swinton player as had to make way regardless of how they have been playing FACT,and for your info gorski is not injured FACT,i also dont dislike cunniffe i think the team is stronger with him it

Edited by bigtony, 19 May 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Little Lion Man]

Time to move this debate to a new thread looking forward towards the next game? One bad half does not deserve any whole scale changes but the injury news today seems to indicate a string of problems looking towards perhaps the hardest game so far. Whilst I expect not all will miss the game it is going to test the squad to the limits when it's the reserve props who have had the game time so far. To add to this debate, I can see why we have stuck with Hawkyard and cunniffe this season as no one can fault the effort of the two. This is also likely to be the reason we have yet to see Mort at full back.

[bigtony]

So who are the reserve props,DR/Loan or swinton props ???????

[marshy1]

Does it really matter. Once they pull the blue of Swinton on and they perform, is ok by me. Ok we got out played at Keighley but which team had'nt played for a week.. get a grip please.

[mark richardson]

Firstly i was joking about the aggression hence the lol at the end, secondly you dont know me, i have watched cunniffe over the last few years and i know what ive seen, he gives away pens more than most but that is what his game is about playing on the edge,thirdly if you look back since the DR have been at swinton, unless their SL club wants them then they have played for swinton and a swinton player as had to make way regardless of how they have been playing FACT,and for your info gorski is not injured FACT,i also dont dislike cunniffe i think the team is stronger with him it

This is fine tony and ill draw a line under it. You hint at insider information which was my point..so you are giving away what you choose to give away. Its funny that actually we both think cunniffe should be in the team in the end.
I think Steve mac should pick the best team and for me that includes all the loan / Dr players except hale.

Edited by mark richardson, 20 May 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[PhillH]

We gave away 8 in total against keighley. If we are going to have discussions we must stick to fact.
Phil claims to have knowlegeof cunniffes appearances at leigh. Clearly an exaggeration much as your claims here! Do we know gorskis fit? No I dont think we do. Do we know macca will always pick the dual reg or loan players? No we dont.
Cunniffe is still only about 24 so no doubt he left leigh because he was way down the pecking order at a team then in a higher division packed with established quality.
Yes we all have our opinions of different players but lets not use opinion as fact when it clearly isnt to suit our arguments.

Mark firstly you claimed that I had a short memory and then that I exaggerate the past.

That's one strange type of amnesia.

Ironically both claims have no proper basis in fact and what you are again attempting to do is attack the credibility of the messenger, rather than debate the message - that being the relative merits of two players. A debate where your view evidently coincides with the choice Steve McCormack is making at the moment anyway, so its an easy win for you and why worry? Worried that I have influence over the coach's team selection?? Don't think so!!

Yes you've proved you're by far the biggest fan of Dale Cunniffe alive and next week will see the start of your campaign to have him play for England in the 2013 World Cup! Power to your elbow!! If we are going to do exaggerations, lets at least do it with a bit of panache.

Edited by PhillH, 20 May 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[lions4eva]

Mark firstly you claimed that I had a short memory and then that I exaggerate the past.

That's one strange type of amnesia.

Ironically both claims have no proper basis in fact and what you are again attempting to do is attack the credibility of the messenger, rather than debate the message - that being the relative merits of two players. A debate where your view evidently coincides with the choice Steve McCormack is making at the moment anyway, so its an easy win for you and why worry? Worried that I have influence over the coach's team selection?? Don't think so!!

Yes you've proved you're by far the biggest fan of Dale Cunniffe alive and next week will see the start of your campaign to have him play for England in the 2013 World Cup! Power to your elbow!! If we are going to do exaggerations, lets at least do it with a bit of panache.

PhilH, the man with the uncanny ability to turn a thread into a negative, sad. Out of all our players, i do think gorski has had the rawest deal. As i think he is equally as good in defence as Dale but much better going forward and concedes less penalties.