44 replies to this topic

[Hornets Nest]

I'm sure we agree on one thing and that is that Hornets will be around for the next gerneration to enjoy, as we have done down the years.

[Anita Bath]

"If you are unhappy with the way things are done, become a member and you can vote for the board of your choice and even stand for election,if the membership likes what you have to say more than existing board members standing you get elected. Simple."

So which one is it - 'everyone is welcome' or 'become a member or shut up'?

[PooingDog]

This infatuation with membership (a form of shareholding but one not based on the amount of shares you buy but whether you buy a membership) is misplaced and probably damaging. According to some of the above posts only a minority of even the current pitifully small attendence are members - indicating that the majority are willing to pay admission (either on the gate or through season ticket purchases) but not interested in paying an additional annual fee to have the right to vote for that part of the board that is elected.

Revenue from increasing attendence is far greater than revenue from increasing membership by the same proportion - its money that comes in on a bi-weekly basis.

Sure, those who choose to become members are the ones who have an indirect role in decision making at the club, and that is how it should be. But they are not the only ones who can have opinions, or even good ideas and even express them. People who pay their money at the gate are just as much supporters as those who choose to become members. So the board may want to listen to the views of supporters (ie customers) even if they are not members. When people complain about the quality of Ford cars, Ford dont respond by saying "buy some shares and come to an AGM and stand for election to the board".


Of course there may be some who are members, even board members, who dont pay at the gate or have season tickets, so not supporters. I am not suggesting their is anything right or wrong about that, just noting this interesting dynamic given the emphashis given to membership relative to supporters.

At the end of the day the 'ownership' will be judged on results as with any other form of organisation - but I suspect if things dont improve there may not be too much looking in the mirror, but back to blaming non-members/supporters/the town/the council/the government/Keith Hill etc etc.

Fair comments and a reasonable argument AB, other clubs listen to fans opinions even if it's the board that make the majority of decisions.
If the club/board was to canvass opinion in a "Fans Forum" (rather than a members meeting) what opinions would you give?
What would you change? What would you keep the same? What advice would you give? Should we go out on a limb and double the playing budget or half it and play it safe (financially speaking)? What questions would ask?
HN has started the ball rolling with one of his opinions and I'm sure he's got more. Bickering aside I'm also sure he's got a wealth of experience as have other people, some of it I'm sure would be worth it's weight in gold, it would be a shame to not at least listen and let it go to waste.

"If you are unhappy with the way things are done, become a member and you can vote for the board of your choice and even stand for election,if the membership likes what you have to say more than existing board members standing you get elected. Simple."

So which one is it - 'everyone is welcome' or 'become a member or shut up'?

To be fair AB neither Puggy nor BH represent the board, we all only post our own opinion.

[Pugwash]

So which one is it - 'everyone is welcome' or 'become a member or shut up'?

I demand you show where I've said "become a member or shut up."

You do this all the time to suit your narrow mind which is set dead against Hornets as they now stand.

Please re-read post 19 and then apologise as I clearly stated in that exactly the opposite to what you've quoted.

The simple facts are that when Hornets went into administration there was a proposal put to the meeting in The Studds Bar from the 'Dale board. no 'Dale board member turned up, and they were backing our original board. This, in my opinion, would have lasted until the 'Dale got their hands on the Stadium shares and then, well you get the idea I'm sure.

So the fans tried their own way out of the mess and this is what we have in front of ourselves.

Under the old system the fans had NO SAY under any circumstances until the Nest Egg softened the attitude but that was too late in the day.

Under the new system the fans have the possibility of having a say if they want one! If they don't want a say they can still play a role in the club by supporting, sponsoring etc. Of course if they don't want to support they don't need to as you usually point out vigorously.

Which system do you prefer?

Pugwash.

Edited by Pugwash, 25 May 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[Anita Bath]

Whoa, calm down puggy, I 'demand'(to use your words) you read through the string of posts carefully, another poster said that and you said something different. Since a third poster said neither you nor the other poster represented the board I was interested in knowing the club's position as presented by the board so NOWHERE DID I SAY YOU SAID THAT.

I have no need to apologise because I never claimed, implied or insinuated you said this, but someone else did say it, on this string, whichj is why it is in quotes.

But we are back to name calling - narrow minded I am - so be it - nothing like engaging in a discussion. In none of my posts do I stoop to name calling.

Incidentally the fans always have the option of buying shares and having a say.

The attitudes dont change - I just hope the results do

[Hornets Nest]

Puggy you are totally right to start wanting to straight talk, you were in the inner circle when me and Gavin were dismissed, I m still waiting for the reasons why? Did the members vote me and Gavin out? If they did fair enough

[Pugwash]

I believe you had departed by the time I was voted onto the board but I understand you left and wasn't dismissed by the club. If you believe you were unfairly dismissed you had the chance to take the club to a tribunal, you didn't take this course of action, why not?

As for name calling AB, I refered to your stance which is now well known by everyone on this board whether they are for or against you and despite many attempts to explain what is happening you just go back to the begining and start all over again. First it was the name, then it was being a member which you have chuntered on about for three years and you still have to put a penny piece through the turnstile. I wonder which part of this points to you being a fan?

I've checked the thread and can find no 'join or shut up quote.

Just in case anyone is still not sure;

If you have anything that you believe would be of value to Rochdale Hornets, ideas etc, then please contact either Nicola or Louise in the office by 'phone, email, snail mail or in person and they will gladly listen to you whether or not you are a member, fan or anything else.

Oh, and just in case anyone is confused, you are welcome at Spotland to support the club whether you are a member or not just as you may be a member without having to come to matches.

Pugwash.

[Anita Bath]

Puggy, go back to my post on 22 May where I raised some questions about the qoutes of the coach reported in the press. I said nothing about the stuff you bring up.

However another poster decided to bring it back to - if you dont like it become a member. So please dont accuse me of bringing up old chesnuts.

Maybe no-one else thinks there is any issue with the Coach being a member of the board at a time when he has raised questions about the(rest of the) board in public and the quality of the senior players. If the board decide they need to consider his future as an employee he gets to vote on the matter! What happens when or if the time comes that the board (of which he is a member) decide to end his employment as coach? Presumably he still, in principle remains as a board member.

A more sensible arrangment in my opinion, would be to have one of the Directors serve as 'director of rugby' and liase closely with the coach on all matters relating to rugby as they pertain to the board.

If some people want to keep bringing every issue back to 'become a member' that is not my fault.

Now you can carry on moaning about me, even calling me narrow minded, and avoid the issues I raised, or you can consider the issues I raised for discussion and even contribute to the discussion with your own opinions, ideas etc.

[boro hornet]

"If you are unhappy with the way things are done, become a member and you can vote for the board of your choice and even stand for election,if the membership likes what you have to say more than existing board members standing you get elected. Simple."

So which one is it - 'everyone is welcome' or 'become a member or shut up'?

Every one is welcome at Hornets and im sure you can ask questions of the board without being a member whilst you are at the match,but as a members club and for the membership fee starting at only £20 you can have a say in who you wish to run the club on the behalf of everyone.
Im sure noone would be turned away if they are offering help as the call for volunteers on the main website shows.
Im sure that every one who contributes to this forum have one thing in common and that is the the safe future for Rochdale Hornets.

[StarfireHypervixen]

Maybe no-one else thinks there is any issue with the Coach being a member of the board at a time when he has raised questions about the(rest of the) board in public and the quality of the senior players. If the board decide they need to consider his future as an employee he gets to vote on the matter! What happens when or if the time comes that the board (of which he is a member) decide to end his employment as coach? Presumably he still, in principle remains as a board member.

A more sensible arrangment in my opinion, would be to have one of the Directors serve as 'director of rugby' and liase closely with the coach on all matters relating to rugby as they pertain to the board.

As I heard it, he's a co-opted director, and his tenure on the board is predicated on his being the coach, and since he's only 1 among 8, he could easily be out-voted on any decision about his future at the club, tho' to be fair, you make a good point about his having a vote on it.

As for his recent comments in the press, and social media; His comments about the board may have been out of order, but one thing is certain, he's a scouse, and they just love to talk, even if its stuff, and nonsense.

[Hornets Nest]

I believe you had departed by the time I was voted onto the board but I understand you left and wasn't dismissed by the club. If you believe you were unfairly dismissed you had the chance to take the club to a tribunal, you didn't take this course of action, why not?

As for name calling AB, I refered to your stance which is now well known by everyone on this board whether they are for or against you and despite many attempts to explain what is happening you just go back to the begining and start all over again. First it was the name, then it was being a member which you have chuntered on about for three years and you still have to put a penny piece through the turnstile. I wonder which part of this points to you being a fan?

I've checked the thread and can find no 'join or shut up quote.

Just in case anyone is still not sure;

If you have anything that you believe would be of value to Rochdale Hornets, ideas etc, then please contact either Nicola or Louise in the office by 'phone, email, snail mail or in person and they will gladly listen to you whether or not you are a member, fan or anything else.

Oh, and just in case anyone is confused, you are welcome at Spotland to support the club whether you are a member or not just as you may be a member without having to come to matches.

Pugwash.

Who do you believe that off then Andy?

[Pugwash]

As I said it was my belief or if you wish my recollection, if I'm wrong then OK but if you were dismissed who took the decision and told you?

As for the question of Stanky being a director;

I have no idea what sort of power he has and whether he would get vote in the question of whether he was sacked or not and frankly I don't think it matters. What matters now is getting the team out of this dreadful division to avoid trips to Northampton, Gloucester, Hemel and one other next season. I couldn't care less in fact.

Pugwash.

[Pugwash]

If you are unhappy with the way things are done, become a member and you can vote for the board of your choice and even stand for election,if the membership likes what you have to say more than existing board members standing you get elected. Simple.

If this is the post you refered to AB then I am afraid you quoytred wrongly. Yes, BH suggests you join the club but he doesn't say 'Shut Up'

BH explains nicely the options that would be open to a person with views about the club as a member which is miles away from your quote of "Join the club or shup up."

If you intend to quote you should use the quote button to ensure you don't get the quote wrong.

Pugwash.

[Snoopy Loopy]

As I said it was my belief or if you wish my recollection, if I'm wrong then OK but if you were dismissed who took the decision and told you?

As for the question of Stanky being a director;

I have no idea what sort of power he has and whether he would get vote in the question of whether he was sacked or not and frankly I don't think it matters. What matters now is getting the team out of this dreadful division to avoid trips to Northampton, Gloucester, Hemel and one other next season. I couldn't care less in fact.

Pugwash.

When you turn up to a game and there are other people doing the job you have been doing for x amount of years I think that's enough to confirm you have been dismissed - possibly constructively

I think shifted out is the correct phrase without even a Thankyou from the club

[Pugwash]

When you turn up to a game and there are other people doing the job you have been doing for x amount of years I think that's enough to confirm you have been dismissed - possibly constructively

I think shifted out is the correct phrase without even a Thankyou from the club

All I can say is that if I had turned up for work and found someone doing my shift I'd have asked a few questions Gavin. I think you and I both know that there was significantly more to the situation than that, don't we??

Did you have a valid contract of emplyment detailing your working hours and pay plus other stuff like time off etc?? I must say Gavin, Mark and yourself have waited a very long time to bring this up and that puzzles me somewhat. You have ben very quick to make all sorts of other complaints but this most serious problem you leave it for over three years, then bring it up with me? I have an idea, why don't you get in touch with your ex-employers, I know it's a bit radical/lateral thinking but it might just help.

Pugwash.

[Anita Bath]

If you are unhappy with the way things are done, become a member and you can vote for the board of your choice and even stand for election,if the membership likes what you have to say more than existing board members standing you get elected. Simple.

No puggy, this is the post I quoted, which is why i put it in quotation marks (as opposed to inverted commas).

This is getting ridiculous - I have shown that my original comments had nothing to do with membership, but that someone else introduced the matter, I have shown I didnt misquote you or anyone else. I have shown I have not name called anyone, but you want to continue to pursue the unproductive part of this string. The topic was about the result in South Wales and the coach's response as reported in the press.

I wonder what you think about the potential conflicts of interest of having an employee of the club and head coach of the team on the board and whether whenever the next coaching appointment happens it would be a good idea not to co-opt them onto the board, but instead to have one of the directors serve as laison with the coach in the position of Director of rugby. Wouldn't this help with lines of accountability?

[StarfireHypervixen]

I wonder what you think about the potential conflicts of interest of having an employee of the club and head coach of the team on the board and whether whenever the next coaching appointment happens it would be a good idea not to co-opt them onto the board, but instead to have one of the directors serve as laison with the coach in the position of Director of rugby. Wouldn't this help with lines of accountability?

Yes

[Pugwash]

To be perfectly frank I would have to know a great deal more about the post Stanky has on the board including whether it is a none-voting place and whether he is entitled to sit in all the meeting or just the part detailing football affairs etc. These things I don't know and as such I am happy to just let the board get on with the job of running the club in the best way they see it.

I think the team needs to take on board all the hard work done to enable them to take the field every week and start performing every week at the level we know they are capable of achieving.

My opinion of John Stankevitch remains unchanged, I think we have one of the best up and coming coaches in the game who will definitely move on to bigger and better things in the future andd thoughts of changing coach for the foreseeable future would be pure folly.

That is what I think about the subject.

Pugwash.

[PooingDog]

Well said.

[ornit4ever]

Puggy your opinion of Stanky is the view of most of the supporters regardless of our current league position.
I do believe that he has put together one of the best squad of players that have graced this club for a long long time, on a pittance of money.

Real supporters only care about results on the field and only real supporters follow the team win lose or draw.

And this thread started as...............odds?