34 replies to this topic

[Methven Hornet]

Jeffles
I agree withm your and others points on finance. However, on spreading the game too thinly if such a lower tier tournament came to pass, that is why I suggested in my OP that the games be played as double headers with the senior World Cup game as the other fixture. The grounds and crowds would already be in place for the main game and the lower tier game would be just added to that original fixture.

The RLIF needs to be an autonomous body with jurisidction over international rugby league and should received funding from the WC and 4 nations with the big three getting a cut of the profits as suggested. It would take a decision from the big three for the greater good for this to happen and I agree there is not the will to do that, especially from the Aussies. The RLIF should also be in charge of rules changes. The Aussies changing the game as they see fit without input from anybody else needs to stop. The rules should be unified worldwide and the RLIF should be the people to administer this after due input from all parties.

The problem with double-headers is that the RLWC is being played in the latter part of October and throughout all of November. The pitches might not stand up to two games - I'm certain Man Utd wouldn't be happy with two games at Old Trafford on a single afternoon.

In an ideal world the RLIF would be a powerful and independent body, but it is currently in the hands of its paymasters.

[keighley]

Yeah, your right on that, Sir Alex must be having kittens because we are playing the final proper in his Church whilst the soccer season is ongoing, never mind a curtain raiser. Maybe hold the lower final at Salford the night before the final. A bit like the Friday night lights at Skolars before the cup final. People in town for the final might go and give it a decent attendance. The pitch issue you raise is valid. Oh well, I thought the idea was a good way to encourage lower tier international countries. Back to the drawing board.

[Methven Hornet]

Yeah, your right on that, Sir Alex must be having kittens because we are playing the final proper in his Church whilst the soccer season is ongoing, never mind a curtain raiser. Maybe hold the lower final at Salford the night before the final. A bit like the Friday night lights at Skolars before the cup final. People in town for the final might go and give it a decent attendance. The pitch issue you raise is valid. Oh well, I thought the idea was a good way to encourage lower tier international countries. Back to the drawing board.

If you're going to have a ENWC then having the final in the week before could work - it certainly did in 1995 when Ireland played Cook Islands at Gigg Lane, Bury. Okay, having Ireland in the final helped, but the game attracted between 4,000 and 5,000 on an atrocious night, weather-wise.

[keighley]

Your memory is better than mine but I seem to remember the whole concept worked quite well and if we could afford to fund it then, i fail to see why we can t afford it now and the PR and inclusionary factors for the teams involved and, indeed, for the whole sport would be invaluable. Maybe next time.

[Methven Hornet]

Your memory is better than mine but I seem to remember the whole concept worked quite well and if we could afford to fund it then, i fail to see why we can t afford it now and the PR and inclusionary factors for the teams involved and, indeed, for the whole sport would be invaluable. Maybe next time.

The differences between now and then:-

International RL had previously been restricted to the big 5 - GB (or England and Wales), Australia, NZ, France and PNG. All good stuff, with plenty of history and tradition, but fairly restricted. Then, all of a sudden, we had lots of new league-playing nations. On the Sunday of the 1995 world cup, after that thrilling England victory over the Aussies on the opening day, I was at Keighley's ground as they packed the spectators in to watch the next match. Fiji v South Africa? As someone said at the time it was as though you had died and gone up to RL heaven! Packed ground, two exotic teams - and an October suntan to boot! What we saw was an exhibition from the Fijians, and what many of us had always thought - that they were naturally more suited to our game and could succeed where they couldn't in union - seemed to be coming true.

Anyway, as soon as the game was over it was into the car and a mad dash across the Pennines to Warrington to see NZ only just prevail against Tonga. This was unreal, a proper international scene just like other sports. The ENWC fit into this mood by delivering 'the others', ie everyone else that had a toe in the water but who were clearly not ready for the real deal. People did turn up to watch, but whether it was curiosity, or something new, I don't think the excitement or attraction was replicated in later tournaments.

I think the optimism of those early days, that the potential of these teams was being realised just by giving them the opportunity to play, has been replaced by a realisation that international development is going to be one long slog, not a continual 'emergence' of new, ready-made national sides.

And who to include? In 1995 it was easy! It was everyone who wasn't playing in the main world cup, but should Wales, who reached the semis in both 1995 and 2000, have been an emerging nation in 2008? Apologies to South Africa if they are now getting everything together, but should they be in having competed in the 1995 and 200 world cups?

The main reason I think it was ditched, however, was the loss the 2000 world cup made. The collective eyes have been on the ball in terms of expenses, and the ENWC is one of the things cut, unfortunately.

[ehbandit]

Do all the teams from the 2000 enwc still compete internationally? e.g japan?

[deluded pom?]

Do all the teams from the 2000 enwc still compete internationally? e.g japan?

The Japanese only have a couple of teams and as far as I'm aware they haven't played a thirteen a side international match since then.

[ehbandit]

The Japanese only have a couple of teams and as far as I'm aware they haven't played a thirteen a side international match since then.

thanks.

[keighley]

Methven
Thanks for your informative post on the 1995 ENWC.

I believe the USA were in that tournament and the exposure and interest from that has licked on into the formation of their domestic league and their qualification for the World Cup proper in 2013.

I did say in my OP that the likes of France and Wales were too strong for such a tournament and if they failed to qualify for the WC then that was it for them until the next qualification.

I remember the Fiji South Africa game at Cougar Park. Great day. It got the ground into the " International Grounds of RL" book by Trevor Delaney. Fiji went on to prove their point though. They were semi finalists in the last World Cup and apparently that is pushing Union into the background back in Fiji as a result. Shows the value of encouraging minor nations in their infancy. the whole idea behind my OP.

i thought the 2000 WC, disastrous as it was, did eventually make a small profit.

I still think, though, that the cancellation of any satellite tournament for the minnows is unfortunate. A sense of inclusion and the oxygen of publicity back in their countries that is engendered is worth some expense. Down the road, as with the USA, it might get us qualified entrants for the World Cup itself

[EdinburghExile]

The Japanese only have a couple of teams and as far as I'm aware they haven't played a thirteen a side international match since then.

As far as I can tell, they've played the USA a few times including a World Cup qualifier, and Malta too. Not sure what level some of the other games were at though.

[deluded pom?]

As far as I can tell, they've played the USA a few times including a World Cup qualifier, and Malta too. Not sure what level some of the other games were at though.

I can't remember them playing Malta. When was that? The WC qualifiers were obviously before the 2000 WC.

[EdinburghExile]

I can't remember them playing Malta. When was that? The WC qualifiers were obviously before the 2000 WC.

Nah, they beat Japan in 2006 in the run-up to the 2008 WC, and Malta beat them easiliy in early 2007.

[Methven Hornet]

Nah, they beat Japan in 2006 in the run-up to the 2008 WC, and Malta beat them easiliy in early 2007.

I think the Malta game was a bunch of Japanese ex-pats in Australia. If you see any Japan results in the records that are from games played in Coffs Harbour, or NSW in general, then it's the ex-pat side.

[deluded pom?]

If you see any Japan results in the records that are from games played in Coffs Harbour, or NSW in general, then it's the ex-pat side.

That's why I sadi a full thirteen a side game in my earlier post. The Japanese have played full games at Coffs but usually they compete in the nines tournament there.

[kimmi]

Norway has a team ..