16 replies to this topic

[Hugh Jarce]

Just watched the Leeds v Bradford game from the weekend, whats going on with our game?

For years we have laughed at RU for not being able to tackle or pass a ball backwards, yet every game this weekend, including our own division, constantly pass the ball forwards....and it goes unnoticed....why???

Sorry, rant over!

[grumpyoldram]

Just watched the Leeds v Bradford game from the weekend, whats going on with our game?

For years we have laughed at RU for not being able to tackle or pass a ball backwards, yet every game this weekend, including our own division, constantly pass the ball forwards....and it goes unnoticed....why???

Sorry, rant over!

Momentum rule ?

[Hugh Jarce]

Momentum rule ?

lol, you sound like Mr Stephenson

I know the game is faster than ever, but we need this addressing. The RFL need to sort this out, and quickly, we are becoming a joke.

[S.T.R]

lol, you sound like Mr Stephenson

I know the game is faster than ever, but we need this addressing. The RFL need to sort this out, and quickly, we are becoming a joke.

The really stupid thing is, it can`t be overturned by the video ref either

[barackoRAMa]

lol, you sound like Mr Stephenson

I know the game is faster than ever, but we need this addressing. The RFL need to sort this out, and quickly, we are becoming a joke.

Becoming a joke! The scrum feeding has been making us a laughing stock for years.

[Hugh Jarce]

The really stupid thing is, it can`t be overturned by the video ref either

With the pitch markings today you can sometimes see the ball leave the players hands and be then caught 3 to 5 meters in front of the passer of the ball

[S.T.R]

With the pitch markings today you can sometimes see the ball leave the players hands and be then caught 3 to 5 meters in front of the passer of the ball

It begs the question, what exactly do the ref and touch judges do ?

[Blind side johnny]

It begs the question, what exactly do the ref and touch judges do ?

Probably spend some time reading the laws of the game and their interpretation so that they understand them more than the average spectator does. Then spend time with coaches of SL and CC clubs discussing issues and interpretations - at least that's what I understand they do

The "momentum rule/law" exists and has done for decades but why should fans bother understanding the meaning and interpretation of that. Yes, refs get some wrong but also get most right - are you happier when an over-zealous ref blows for forward passes against your team when you believe that they weren't or do you prefer it when he lets the opposition get away with passes that you believe are forward.


If you possibly can then do watch some footage of games from 30 or so years ago. You would be astonished at the standard of refereeing and the amount that players got away with then (which will also concern you about the quality of your memory) that would cause protests such as this today. There weren't the same levels of complaint then as there are now for a multitude of reasons (which are difficult to discuss on this forum without dragging other sociological changes on to a RL board).

[Piggy's mate]

Momentum rule ?

Up at Mount its called gravity........ well at least it is when your playing down the hill

[DavidM]

What do touch judges actually do ..What is the point of them?. That's one of life's great questions. Up there with what's the meaning of life.As for the momentum rule... That only exists in Stevos head.

[S.T.R]

Probably spend some time reading the laws of the game and their interpretation so that they understand them more than the average spectator does. Then spend time with coaches of SL and CC clubs discussing issues and interpretations - at least that's what I understand they do

The "momentum rule/law" exists and has done for decades but why should fans bother understanding the meaning and interpretation of that. Yes, refs get some wrong but also get most right - are you happier when an over-zealous ref blows for forward passes against your team when you believe that they weren't or do you prefer it when he lets the opposition get away with passes that you believe are forward.


If you possibly can then do watch some footage of games from 30 or so years ago. You would be astonished at the standard of refereeing and the amount that players got away with then (which will also concern you about the quality of your memory) that would cause protests such as this today. There weren't the same levels of complaint then as there are now for a multitude of reasons (which are difficult to discuss on this forum without dragging other sociological changes on to a RL board).

just read your post bsj
interpretation of the laws, a forward pass which ever way you look at it is still a forward pass
as for the momentum rule, if a player is travelling in a forward direction, and passes the ball behind him it can`t possibly be forward, simple physics really

[John North]

Surely the momentum rule specifically allows for the ball to be passed forward ?

[Blind side johnny]

just read your post bsj
interpretation of the laws, a forward pass which ever way you look at it is still a forward pass
as for the momentum rule, if a player is travelling in a forward direction, and passes the ball behind him it can`t possibly be forward, simple physics really

From the RFL web site:

Direction of Pass 1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind him but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not
passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.

In other words the ball goes forwards but is not a forward pass. Simple physics really.

[funkmaster flex]

What referees look for is the position of the hand when the ball leaves. It follows that if the hands are facing back the ball is deemed to have been thrown backwards even if the ball then 'curles' slightly forward.

In terms of the 'momentum rule' in physics this is easily explained. If a player is moving forward, then for a ball to travel backward it must either be thrown in the backward direction, or thrown flat at a speed faster than the the speed the player is moving forward in relation to the ground.

The example is throwing a ball from a moving car. If the car is travelling 30mph and passes a lamppost, at that exact point you throw the ball backwards aiming for the lamppost, the slower you throw the ball the further in front of the lamppost it will land. You threw it backwards, but it landed forwards of the lamppost and so travelled forward. Of course the faster you throw the ball the more likely the ball is to land at or nearer to the lamppost. Which goes back to my original point about forward movement and speed of the pass.

The actual phrase is not momentum rule, but the Galilean transformation. Impossible to work out mid game by any referee in real time and so a reason why the pass may look forward but not actually be forward and an excuse for the seeming ineptitude of touch judges.

What we are seeing is evolution of the game, catching defenders out of position and putting the attack at a legal advantage. Blatant forward passes are annoying, but how the game is evolving and how teams are looking to involve physics into their game is exciting.
4 drives and a pass out wide is a thing of the past (except at Batley) and we can welcome in a new era for an ever evolving game.

Edited by funkmaster flex, 31 May 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[grumpyoldram]

What referees look for is the position of the hand when the ball leaves. It follows that if the hands are facing back the ball is deemed to have been thrown backwards even if the ball then 'curles' slightly forward.

In terms of the 'momentum rule' in physics this is easily explained. If a player is moving forward, then for a ball to travel backward it must either be thrown in the backward direction, or thrown flat at a speed faster than the the speed the player is moving forward in relation to the ground.

The example is throwing a ball from a moving car. If the car is travelling 30mph and passes a lamppost, at that exact point you throw the ball backwards aiming for the lamppost, the slower you throw the ball the further in front of the lamppost it will land. You threw it backwards, but it landed forwards of the lamppost and so travelled forward. Of course the faster you throw the ball the more likely the ball is to land at or nearer to the lamppost. Which goes back to my original point about forward movement and speed of the pass.

The actual phrase is not momentum rule, but the Galilean transformation. Impossible to work out mid game by any referee in real time and so a reason why the pass may look forward but not actually be forward and an excuse for the seeming ineptitude of touch judges.

What we are seeing is evolution of the game, catching defenders out of position and putting the attack at a legal advantage. Blatant forward passes are annoying, but how the game is evolving and how teams are looking to involve physics into their game is exciting.
4 drives and a pass out wide is a thing of the past (except at Batley) and we can welcome in a new era for an ever evolving game.

If WJ has had to read that definition from the RL, I'd love to have seen his face. Impressive though.

[Hugh Jarce]

Oh My!!!

What have I started? I only posted because I was cheesed off with watching forward passes being ignored by the officials.

My major gripe was from the play of the ball, I don't think Mr Diskin passed backwards once! (Slight exaggeration I know, but whatever!)

[blackhawk]

Oh My!!!

What have I started? I only posted because I was cheesed off with watching forward passes being ignored by the officials.

My major gripe was from the play of the ball, I don't think Mr Diskin passed backwards once! (Slight exaggeration I know, but whatever!)

and another bug bear of mine is BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT,after scoring an alleged try if the video ref is in doubt then it should be ruled no try ,