76 replies to this topic

[bowes]

Yes

I think the clubs should have this info before anyone else Bowes.

Not long to wait - the meetings on monday......

Fair enough. You can understand being anxious when there's a risk of our first team being left without a league (the reserves play midlands premier as is). Obviously I can hope a flaw is discovered in Oxford's bid.

[PhilCarrington]

Pretty much my thought on the matter. Though Nottingham have already asked to play up north.

Something like:
South Wales Hornets
Bristol
St Albans
Leicester
Northampton
London Skolars A
Hammersmith
Eastern Rhinos
South London
Elmbridge

Maybe Coventry but maybe they'd be in Championship 1 or up north. My concern would be whether the likes of South London and Elmbridge would buy into it.

Guess Hemel and All Golds might be able to run reserves (the latter playing as the Warriors?) to provide extra teams. As might a Championship 1 Coventry but probably not Oxford. This might be a stretch on the nascent pro clubs though even if Skolars and Scorpions could manage.

Hmmn, a league that takes the top clubs that play in a number of different leagues south of Sheffield. That's so 1997 - exactly what the Southern Conference was set up to do (other than that was set up alongside the existing leagues such as they were).

[bowes]

Hmmn, a league that takes the top clubs that play in a number of different leagues south of Sheffield. That's so 1997 - exactly what the Southern Conference was set up to do (other than that was set up alongside the existing leagues such as they were).

Sort of though they had conferences and a short season.

[Marauder]

Fair enough. You can understand being anxious when there's a risk of our first team being left without a league (the reserves play midlands premier as is). Obviously I can hope a flaw is discovered in Oxford's bid.

How will you be left without a league to play in?

[Marauder]

28 clubs voluntarily chose summer. The other 10 were offered winter by BARLA and one chose it which is fair enough. The other 9 decided to go summer after all. If they're subsequently whinging they can only blame themselves and not the RFL for accepting the wishes of the vast majority. Otherwise we'd all be playing RU still out of not wanting to lose Dewsbury (who changed their mind a few tears later anyway)

Do you mean Dewsbury Celtic?

[Marauder]

If they can be persuaded to give summer another season then they can be persuaded that this was the worst ever summer season when they see what a normal summer's like.

But if not then the will of the vast majority for summer has to be respected.

Of course they may find it impractical to switch to the NCL again when winter sees months of called off games and they're still playing in May and the NCL is already long since started

Your way off the mark Bowes, It's not the weather thats the reason some NCL clubs are having second thoughts, clubs are struggling for numbers on match day and the downward spiral becomes the lack of numbers at training.

[bowes]

Do you mean Dewsbury Celtic?

No. At the original northern union split Dewsbury wanted to play summer.

[bowes]

How will you be left without a league to play in?

Because there's no league our players would consider acceptable. The highest league we'd be able to enter below NCL already has our reserve team in. Some players may choice to join up with them and others may go to Northampton Rebels or Nottingham but can't see players signing up to a short season of 50 point wins and walkovers. Some may decide RU is a better prospect and all players wanting to stay with us would have to play RU as well if they want a sensible season length.

[Marauder]

Because there's no league our players would consider acceptable. The highest league we'd be able to enter below NCL already has our reserve team in. Some players may choice to join up with them and others may go to Northampton Rebels or Nottingham but can't see players signing up to a short season of 50 point wins and walkovers. Some may decide RU is a better prospect and all players wanting to stay with us would have to play RU as well if they want a sensible season length.

Don't you think that was the case with a lot of BARLA clubs once the better sides had been courted to switch and did anyone at RFL headquarters give two hoots about any club stopping with BARLA.

[bowes]

Don't you think that was the case with a lot of BARLA clubs once the better sides had been courted to switch and did anyone at RFL headquarters give two hoots about any club stopping with BARLA.

Maybe in the NWCL. But otherwise not really comparable as the Pennine League is so good. But even then not really as the Pennine League are open to Lancashire clubs.

Still doesn't mean good clubs should be Willy nilly killed.

[Marauder]

Maybe in the NWCL. But otherwise not really comparable as the Pennine League is so good. But even then not really as the Pennine League are open to Lancashire clubs.

Still doesn't mean good clubs should be Willy nilly killed.

NWC was a very well run league likewise the Hull league (when i played in it anyway)

[bowes]

NWC was a very well run league likewise the Hull league (when i played in it anyway)

Yes but the vast majority of players at the vast majority of clubs wanted summer. You can't force 70ish clubs to play winter for the sake of 11.

[Marauder]

Yes but the vast majority of players at the vast majority of clubs wanted summer. You can't force 70ish clubs to play winter for the sake of 11.

Really! Why was the RLC a lot stronger on the East side of the Pennines than the West and why didn't Yorkshire jump at the summer season?

My theory is the RFL thought Yorkshire would move without being courted and the RLC & NCL management was predominately West of the Pennines strong.

Why was it so hard to get players in and around Hull to take to the summer?

Edited by Marauder, 20 June 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[bowes]

Really! Why was the RLC a lot stronger on the East side of the Pennines than the West and why didn't Yorkshire jump at the summer season?

My theory is the RFL thought Yorkshire would move without being courted and the RLC & NCL management was predominately West of the Pennines strong.

Why was it so hard to get players in and around Hull to take to the summer?

Total nonsense. When the NWCL club committees were asked which season they wanted only 3 divisions worth went for summer (including just 1 premier division team) and that includes 13 NCL reserve teams. When players were given a choice you saw landslides for summer from clubs as diverse as Heysham Atoms, Halton Farnworth Hornets and Ashton Bears. David Lowe's presence in St Helens didn't cast a voodoo spell to magically persuade these players. Granted half a dozen clubs like Rylands, Woolston Rovers and Halton Simms Cross were less than convinced and only switched for the standard but the rest it was voluntary

The RLC is a red herring as it was a disgrace in Lancashire. Nothing to do with summer.

As for Hull, Castleford and Wakefield and to a degree the rest of Yorkshire I don't know but they seem to have an independent mentality more resistant to change. Also the top Pennine League clubs didn't have any NCL ambitions like the top NWCL clubs, the latter also wanted to link with juniors

[GeordieSaint]

I've just mentioned it on another thread on the main board that RL in this country is too fragmented and with too much in-fighting going on at all levels. There are too many egos and own-agendas in the game. We'll never compete against the Aussies permenantely whilst this culture prevails. One governing body who delegate powers down to the various organisational bodies is the way forward. The RFL shouldn't be allowed to make all the decisions, it should be the director of the overall aim, to make England the best side in the world and the game over here strong.. All clubs should be playing at the same time of year, albeit either in winter or summer, I don't care which. It means change in all areas of the game and sticking with it, not making half-hearted decisions or changing minds after a year or two. Everybodys' goal should be to make England the best side in the world.

[bowes]

I've just mentioned it on another thread on the main board that RL in this country is too fragmented and with too much in-fighting going on at all levels. There are too many egos and own-agendas in the game. We'll never compete against the Aussies permenantely whilst this culture prevails. One governing body who delegate powers down to the various organisational bodies is the way forward. The RFL shouldn't be allowed to make all the decisions, it should be the director of the overall aim, to make England the best side in the world and the game over here strong.. All clubs should be playing at the same time of year, albeit either in winter or summer, I don't care which. It means change in all areas of the game and sticking with it, not making half-hearted decisions or changing minds after a year or two. Everybodys' goal should be to make England the best side in the world.

Agree but how would you do it? Plant bombs at winter fixtures? Nothing less would work.

Edited by bowes, 20 June 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[GeordieSaint]

Agree but how would you do it? Plant bombs at winter fixtures? Nothing less would work.

For starters if the game was to switch completely to the summer, the current winter-based sides/organisations need to be able to trust the RFL, which from Marauder's posts, doesn't seem to be the case at present. The RFL should be run by professionals NOT associated with previous professional club regimes. It should be headed up by an outsider, someone similar to Lewis. The entire board of directors should be non-club affiliated personalities as well. The RL community board needs to be the epicentre of the game's decision making process with everyone given a voice and an equal vote.

Secondly, one single document, giving a clear aim, guidance and direction of how to make England the best side in the world needs to be created. This should be created utilising guidance and support from all areas of the game. It should set out how this would be achieved identifying the benefits for all parties, not just the selected few. It needs to start at the grassroots level encompassing coaching, club support etc with a real pyramid structure showing a route to the very top in place. It needs to be distributed so EVERYONE sees the benefits of such a system.

Would it work? No idea! Probably not, as there seems to be too many people with their own agendas in my opinion from reading posts on here, speaking to people and listening to some of the drivel being spoken by Chairman of professional clubs and ex-players. However, it should happen. Everyone should be singing of the same songsheet. We should all be trying to make England RL the best in the world.