61 replies to this topic

[IM2]

I think its all very well adding new C1 sides, but my fear is we bring in too many with weak structures and infrastructure. I personally think we should consider NCL clubs especially now they have moved to the summer. These clubs have strong roots, active community involvement, revenue models etc. Seems like a no brainer. Of course it adds sides that might be close to existing C1 sides but surely the aim is to grow the game whether its in or outside the heartlands.

[bowes]

They should have added 8 new sides to give 14 in Championship 1, perhaps Hemel plus 7 from the NCL. There are 3 problems with this though:

1. Only Rochdale Mayfield applied for Championship 1 out of the NCL
2. You would need to introduce promotion and relegation realistically between Championship 1 and the NCL which wouldn't work as the relegated Championship 1 side would fail NCL minimum criteria
3. Only 1 or 2 NCL clubs meet Championship 1 minimum criteria

In an ideal world I'd agree 100% but this is rugby league and there are too many vested interests and empire builders.

Edited by bowes, 27 June 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Northern Sol]

Does Rochdale really need a second team?

The idea works in theory but I can't think of any teams that are from areas not already represented or that represent very small towns.

[bowes]

Does Rochdale really need a second team?

The idea works in theory but I can't think of any teams that are from areas not already represented or that represent very small towns.

Does it really matter though? In many other sports your third tier would have (say) your 29th to 42nd best teams regardless of geography and Rochdale Mayfield would be a stronger side than Oxford. Possibly minimum criteria would effect this but nevertheless it would rarely be decided solely on geography otherwise Hunslet and Hull KR would get shut down

The Championship restructuring is a good idea in that a 14 team Championship is desperately needed. The Championship 1 format is only there because no deal with the NCL for a joint 3rd tier was possible (say with 7 sides each?)

Edited by bowes, 27 June 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[sidnee]

Would like to see Fev U23's playing in champ 1. This season hasn't tested them enough in their own league as clubs cannot or won't invest time and money to make it worthwhile.

9 games played, won 9 with a daft points diff of something like +360!!!!!

[Hornetto]

Does Rochdale really need a second team?

The idea works in theory but I can't think of any teams that are from areas not already represented or that represent very small towns.

Population of the Rochdale Metropolitan Borough = 206,000.

Population of Dundee = 140,000. Dundee has two pro soccer clubs, so why not?

Mayfield have good facilities and already get crowds round the 200 mark (admittedly boosted by moonlighting Hornets fans).

It could rival the Hull derby....

[bowes]

Would like to see Fev U23's playing in champ 1. This season hasn't tested them enough in their own league as clubs cannot or won't invest time and money to make it worthwhile.

9 games played, won 9 with a daft points diff of something like +360!!!!!

They're considering scrapping Championship U23 and instead letting clubs farm players out to NCL clubs. The NCL clubs would have to accept it first though

Edited by bowes, 27 June 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[Marauder]

Would like to see Fev U23's playing in champ 1. This season hasn't tested them enough in their own league as clubs cannot or won't invest time and money to make it worthwhile.

9 games played, won 9 with a daft points diff of something like +360!!!!!

In a couple of years time their U21's may also be getting hammered thou.

[Marauder]

They're considering scrapping Championship U23 and instead letting clubs farm players out to NCL clubs. The NCL clubs would have to accept it first though

the bigger picture, where El Capo

[Methven Hornet]

Population of the Rochdale Metropolitan Borough = 206,000.

Population of Dundee = 140,000. Dundee has two pro soccer clubs, so why not?

Mayfield have good facilities and already get crowds round the 200 mark (admittedly boosted by moonlighting Hornets fans).

It could rival the Hull derby....

Population of the Dundee City: 145,663 (note: the city boundaries are extremely 'tight' against the city's built up areas - a bit of gerrymandering by the Tories in the hope they could win control of the surrounding Angus Council )

Population of surrounding Angus District (where most of Dundee's expansion is going): 108,400

When you add in north-east Fife (linked by Tay Bridge) and the parts of Perth and Kinross that look to Dundee as 'their city', then you're talking about 350,000 within Dundee's sphere of influence.

Unlike Rochdale, Dundee has no other sporting attractions nearby - believe me, no Dundonian is going to travel to Perth to watch St Johnstone. Apart from the few coachloads which leave the city each weekend to watch the Old Firm, the two Dundee clubs have a captive market when it comes to professional sport.

[Methven Hornet]

I think its all very well adding new C1 sides, but my fear is we bring in too many with weak structures and infrastructure. I personally think we should consider NCL clubs especially now they have moved to the summer. These clubs have strong roots, active community involvement, revenue models etc. Seems like a no brainer. Of course it adds sides that might be close to existing C1 sides but surely the aim is to grow the game whether its in or outside the heartlands.

No, absolutely not. The current expansion of CC1 is about creating semi-pro clubs, providing playing opportunities of a standard that just do not exist at present, in areas of the country outside of the heartlands. These playing opportunities exist in the heartlands already - if a player in Leigh is good enough to play semi-pro he can play for Leigh, or one of the nearby CC1 clubs.

What is the point of duplicating, and diluting, the effort in heartland towns? Towns like Leigh do not need three clubs in the game's professional ranks and, in any case, the elite amateur/community clubs are best served by the existing, stand alone competition - the NCL. I can perhaps see the point of clubs from distinct towns - Millom, say - stepping up, but not from communities with existing pro clubs.

And as for Rochdale, the town struggles to maintain one semi-pro club, never mind two. I can possibly see the case for Mayfield replacing Hornets, but not joining them.

[Methven Hornet]

One idea would be to encourage the creation of CC1 standard clubs in those large areas of the north that don't have such a presence at present.

[GeordieSaint]

No, absolutely not. The current expansion of CC1 is about creating semi-pro clubs, providing playing opportunities of a standard that just do not exist at present, in areas of the country outside of the heartlands. These playing opportunities exist in the heartlands already - if a player in Leigh is good enough to play semi-pro he can play for Leigh, or one of the nearby CC1 clubs.

Agreed. I am really looking forward to seeing four new non-traditional clubs in Championship 1 next year.

[EdinburghExile]

I think most of the NCL clubs are pretty happy working at an amateur level - why be a small fish in a big pond and pay more for the privilege?

[Northern Sol]

One idea would be to encourage the creation of CC1 standard clubs in those large areas of the north that don't have such a presence at present.

I'd like that but who are you thinking of?

Watch Brow Hornets are hardly based in a major city.

[Northern Sol]

Population of the Rochdale Metropolitan Borough = 206,000.

Population of Dundee = 140,000. Dundee has two pro soccer clubs, so why not?

Mayfield have good facilities and already get crowds round the 200 mark (admittedly boosted by moonlighting Hornets fans).

It could rival the Hull derby....

Rochdale has such a massive population and yet tiny attendances at the one club. You'd have thought they'd be like Aberdeen.

Quite possibly Scots football and English RL aren't comparable.

It's not like Bramley and Hunslet are packing them in despite being based in one of the UK's biggest cities.

[bowes]

I'd like that but who are you thinking of?

Watch Brow Hornets are hardly based in a major city.

He was I believe referring to Blackpool, Preston, Scarborough etc rather than NCL clubs

[Jonty]

Perhaps the one place this would work best is Millom, who would pull in the crowds and revenue for this level of the game without relying upon significant support from fans of their nearest Championships clubs, both of whom are a difficult 25-30 miles away.

Millom in CC1 would average between 500 and 1000 at this stage, and pull in well over 1000 for big games IMO, as well as being supported by a strong grassroots and community infrastructure. In this case any "promotion" would be a return to the pro-ranks, as Millom were full playing members of the RFL from 1897 until 1901 IIRC, and seem to think that they held voting rights on the RFL council until well into the 20th century.

Edited by Jonty, 28 June 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[Northern Sol]

Millom is a "Where's that?" even if you live in Cumbria.

The three Cumbrian sides all struggle for cash and yet they are based in decent sized towns (by Cumbrian standards)

[Northern Sol]

He was I believe referring to Blackpool, Preston, Scarborough etc rather than NCL clubs

I'd welcome the return of semi-pro RL to any of those towns but what level of RL are these clubs curently at?

Surely they are a million miles away from the top flight of NCL.