12 replies to this topic

[GeordieSaint]

I saw this article on another forum.

http://www.courierma...x-1226406373079

Hopefully the start of a complete overhaul.

[The Future is League]

it would be so easy to simplyfiy it, but everyone seems frightend of making the first step
Simple rules that should be applied before you can play international Rugby League.
You can only play for a country in you was born in that country, or had a parent that was born in the country, or have lived in that country for at least 10 years, and finally you can only play for one country at senior level.
Nice and simple and no grey areas so come on RLIF get it sorted.

[GeordieSaint]

No wonder the whole issue is so confusing. Look at this quote from the RLIF and Aussies on the League Unlimited website. Confusing or what?

"The controversy over State of Origin eligibility rules is "an Australian issue", says the Kiwi who heads the Rugby League International Federation.

Scott Carter – who also serves as the chairman of the New Zealand Rugby League – said the federation was paying close attention to the current "furore" across the Tasman.

The selection of two New Zealand-born players – James Tamou (New South Wales) and Ben Te'o (Queensland) – for Origin this year has caused widespread debate both here and abroad.

Australian Rugby League Commission chairman John Grant, in responding to speculation recently that another New Zealander – Bulldogs prop Sam Kasiano – was set for a call-up to Queensland, said the federation had to look at its rules.

"I don't think the State of Origin rules are going to change, I think more the issue is the international rules," Grant said.

"Internationals should come before State of Origin. You either play for Australia or New Zealand or whatever before you contemplate either New South Wales or Queensland.

"That's really an international federation issue and there are a lot of countries on the international federation and there is a sub-committee out of the board that actually deals with rules and eligibility rules particularly.

"I'd expect the New Zealand Rugby League would be putting that sort of situation very firmly on the board agenda and I think we'd have a strong point of view about that."

But in response, Carter has defended the federation's eligibility rules as "sound and clear" and said any issues around Origin were a by-product of Australia's requirement that Origin players must declare their allegiance to the Kangaroos.

"It's been interesting to follow some of the comments from across the Tasman where the inference has been that it's the international body which needs to look at its eligibility rules," Carter said.

"But, as many people well know, the RLIF has already looked at its rules and they are sound and quite clear.

"There are two live issues remaining for the international board. One is whether international eligibility rules should apply to junior internationals – in other words the under-20s level. And of course we also need to get some clarity on when residence is deemed to have started."

Carter said the controversy across the Tasman stemmed from the Australian requirement that Origin players had to make themselves available for Australia.

This was an Australian interpretation. Many players did not realise there was nothing in the federation rules to prevent them playing Origin as well as tests for a different country.

The emphasis in the search for a solution was on Australia, "because it is an Australian issue".

For example, Warriors star Feleti Mateo could represent Tonga at next year's world cup even if he achieves his ambition of playing for New South Wales. It's only once he plays for the Kangaroos that he would then be ineligible.

"The reality is that Feleti has played for Tonga and he remains, at this stage, a Tongan international as long as he doesn't play an international for any other country that he qualifies for," Carter said.

Mateo, 28, opted to switch allegiance to Australia earlier in the year in a bid to earn selection for New South Wales.

He played in the annual "trial" match for the City team against Country in April but failed to sufficiently impress the selectors.

Mateo insists he still has a strong desire to play for his state. But with another world cup next year and the strong possibility he will continue to be overlooked by the Origin selectors, he would have no qualms about turning out for the Pacific nation again.

"I've always said Origin is about the best players playing. If they don't want to use me then I don't see any reason why I can't go and play for Tonga," Mateo said.

"I think for now, the line has been drawn. But if the world cup rolls around and I haven't had a shot yet, I don't see why I would have to be wasted on the sideline.

"I'm sure there's many more cases like mine."

Sounds like the Aussies are interpreting Origin as they see fit and the RLIF are slightly deluded if they think the current eligibility rules are fit for purpose. They should be:

1. You can play for a country you were born in, parents/grandparents were (and can prove it), or been a resident for more than five years.

2. Once played for a country, you cannot change allegiances.

3. If you play junior rugby for a nation, you cannot change to another nation.

4. Players who are eligible for Origin DON'T have to pledge allegiances to Australia.

[keighley]

It s like Danny Brough playing for Yorkshire and then Scotland ( when he did). He s eligible to play for both teams. So it should be for a person qualified to play for NZ or anyone else but who has ben born or learned his rugby in Queensland or NSW to also qualify and play for those states if picked.

[GeordieSaint]

It s like Danny Brough playing for Yorkshire and then Scotland ( when he did). He s eligible to play for both teams. So it should be for a person qualified to play for NZ or anyone else but who has ben born or learned his rugby in Queensland or NSW to also qualify and play for those states if picked.

Makes sense. However, reading the quote above, the Aussies won't allow this, despite trying to pin the blame on the RLIF rules. Consequentely, I don't think the Aussie would ever allow such a rule to take place. So the RLIF really need to tighten up the eligibility rules across the board.

[deluded pom?]

The Aussies have opened up the rules on SoO by allowing players to play who are not genuine Queenslanders or N S Welshmen. Soon it will be just another All Stars game.

[GeordieSaint]

The Aussies have opened up the rules on SoO by allowing players to play who are not genuine Queenslanders or N S Welshmen.

But this still have to pledge allegiance to Australia though?

[druzik]

I'll post what I put in LU.

I think everyone is missing several point in this post.

1. The ARL have established the rule that to play in SoO you HAVE to declare your alegience for Australia, its why players like Uate et.al. went to the RLIF to get ruling and have their eligibility swapped under that bastardization of a law they have. I am sorry but one does affect the other, no matter how much anyone tries to put their head in the sand, SoO does influence the international eligibility.

2. The reason SoO have doen this is so that it essentially does not become an All-Stars game... If everyone was allowed to play in it then that is what you have... and the whole "State of Origin" becomes meaningless.

3. As it is SoO was always and artificial construct designed to "even the playing field" bewteen NSW and QLD. As it stand now it has created exactly the same situation that was before 1980 but on the international level. Australia, like NSW back then, is so strong because it basically buys the best players for itself, and everyone else, like QLD back then, has the scraps. Occasionally they win a game or two but 90% of the time its the Aussies that will pummel everyone.

4. The RLIF eligibility rules are not sound and clear... they ARE designed to maximise Australias and to a lesser extent NZs ability to poach players from nations that would otherwise have quality players. It then does not allow for any fair or greater competition outside 2-3 nations. Their rules allow the loop hole that SoO can use to poach players.

5. Scott Carter, now has demonstrated 2x that he is unwilling to really take on the proper issues and stick his head in the sand. Effectively palming it off that is for Australia to sort out is just a cheap cop out. He has done this with the USA Rugby League situation, he basically did not want to take on a positive role and get the RLIF involved, told them to "sort it out", and walked away and has left them to their own devices... and the situation continues.

6. Re: one of DPs comments... Carter may say that but I think he does not understand his own rules then. The RLIF may not say that a player is tied down, but the SoO do, a player coming from another nation has to declare himself for Australia which will mean that they have to get their one dispensation from the RLIF to switch allegiance to Australia. this means that they cannot switch back. Thus Akuila Uate, having played for Fiji, got his one dispensation to switch to Australia so he can play for NSW. This locks him out of Fiji for next years world cup. I have asked this many times to the RLIF, RLEF and RFL and they all have sid he cannot play for Fiji next year, Its either the Kangaroos or he sits it out.

The RLEF eligibility rules may not explicitly say that a player in SoO is locked in but the way everything is done and written between the RLIF and ARL and SoO it sure does lock them in... or out... as you see fit.

Here is a question, lets say Sam Burgess in 2 years time wants to play State of Origin? What then. He WILL be lost to England for the 2017 campaign as he will need to use his one allegiance swap to play for Australia and cannot swap back.

[dhw]

it would be so easy to simplyfiy it, but everyone seems frightend of making the first step
Simple rules that should be applied before you can play international Rugby League.
You can only play for a country in you was born in that country, or had a parent that was born in the country, or have lived in that country for at least 10 years, and finally you can only play for one country at senior level.
Nice and simple and no grey areas so come on RLIF get it sorted.

I agree with most of those rules apart from the 10 year rule. A family move to Australia or New Zealand with their 15 year old son, their son has never played RL before but ends up becoming a star in the NRL and has a NZ/Aus passport. By this rule despite being NZ/Aus citizen and learning all his RL there he cannot represent that country. If he qualifies for citizenship under regular rules of residency that should be enough.

On top of this the ARL and NZRL would not benefit from the investment they made in that player.

[deluded pom?]

But this still have to pledge allegiance to Australia though?

And despite what dru says pledging allegiance to Australia means nothing until the player pulls a Kangaroo shirt over his head. Scott Carter has already confirmed this.

[druzik]

DP, Scot Carter, I think may not be fully up on his own rules.

I can see this going one of two ways, if what you say is correct:
1. The selections will tighten up and we will start to see a proper international game being played and only true NSW and QLD players in SoO
2. The Aussies will start to grab all these players for every Kangaroo match, stick them in one game and that will lock them in for Origin. Essentially will become a political move like what is happening with the Tomahawks in the USA.

Knowing the Aussies and the ARL©, my money is on #2

I have no fiath in Carter actually doing anything, he will bury his head, stick his fingers in his ears and sing la al la la la la la la.

[deluded pom?]

DP, Scot Carter, I think may not be fully up on his own rules.

I can see this going one of two ways, if what you say is correct:
1. The selections will tighten up and we will start to see a proper international game being played and only true NSW and QLD players in SoO
2. The Aussies will start to grab all these players for every Kangaroo match, stick them in one game and that will lock them in for Origin. Essentially will become a political move like what is happening with the Tomahawks in the USA.

Knowing the Aussies and the ARL©, my money is on #2

I have no fiath in Carter actually doing anything, he will bury his head, stick his fingers in his ears and sing la al la la la la la la.

If scenario #2 happens dru we may as well all wrap in now because international RL will be just the same as it was forty years ago.

[druzik]

If scenario #2 happens dru we may as well all wrap in now because international RL will be just the same as it was forty years ago.

Agree... its a worrying sign, but that is the way I am seeing things going right now.

All the hard work everyone is putting in in Europe and else where will come to naught. The way things are right now is very worrying.

I have been saying for years, Origin in its current format needs to go... it is slowly killing our game.

There is a third scenario that could play out as well...
3. The NRL and SoO become so different in rules etc... that they morph into a new sport and the rest of the world and possibly the lower grades of league break off and reform a new federation and competition. Its a square 1 scenario but could be a good scenario none the less.