21 replies to this topic

[il cattivo]

wow.what a game.......i wont spoil it by posting the result for those who have recorded it,but how pathetic does it make our own 'origin' games look?

[blackhawk]

wow.what a game.......i wont spoil it by posting the result for those who have recorded it,but how pathetic does it make our own 'origin' games look?

we are streets away from the aussies .how many head shots went un punished ,if that had been ganson we would of got all of 10 minutes rugby,the rest would of been given up to penalties,are the hell of a bunch of tough guys , nothing asked for , and nothing given a draw would of been a fair result ,but congrats to the maroons,hope some of our refs watched the game and learnt from it .

[BatleyFanAndy]

we are streets away from the aussies .how many head shots went un punished ,if that had been ganson we would of got all of 10 minutes rugby,the rest would of been given up to penalties,are the hell of a bunch of tough guys , nothing asked for , and nothing given a draw would of been a fair result ,but congrats to the maroons,hope some of our refs watched the game and learnt from it .

Ooops, theres the result!

[LINNERS]

I know we have tried it before a few years ago but whats wrong with playing a Yorkshire v Lancashire series?

[fredm]

I also thought that the refs let a lot go which would have been blown up for over here. Thus the players got on a roll and the game became better for it than all the stopping and starting that seems to be the norm in England.

With regards to the Yorks v Lancs it is like everything else that the RFL do. There is no long term planning or commitment to an idea. They try something for a season or maybe two, then if it isn't a sell out they scrap it for something else, and so on and so on. They need to sit down with the coaches etc, work out a way forward and then let it run for a few years with plenty of publicity etc. to bring in the crowds.

[distantdog]

we are streets away from the aussies .how many head shots went un punished ,if that had been ganson we would of got all of 10 minutes rugby,the rest would of been given up to penalties,are the hell of a bunch of tough guys , nothing asked for , and nothing given a draw would of been a fair result ,but congrats to the maroons,hope some of our refs watched the game and learnt from it .

Bloody hell!!!

[Blind side johnny]

I know we have tried it before a few years ago but whats wrong with playing a Yorkshire v Lancashire series?

A couple of things.

It's been tried before and found to be very poor.

The difference between SoO and Yorks/Lancs is much greater than a bit of long-standing rivalry - they really are like separate countries at times.

In match 1 a relatively inexperienced ref sent a NSW player to the sin-bin causing great incredulity and the comment "it's not a club game ref!". In other words the interpretations that are applied to SoO are quite different to those applied in their regular league games where the performances of SL referees would be no better or worse than their own.

[HaroldShand]

A couple of things.

It's been tried before and found to be very poor.

The difference between SoO and Yorks/Lancs is much greater than a bit of long-standing rivalry - they really are like separate countries at times.

In match 1 a relatively inexperienced ref sent a NSW player to the sin-bin causing great incredulity and the comment "it's not a club game ref!". In other words the interpretations that are applied to SoO are quite different to those applied in their regular league games where the performances of SL referees would be no better or worse than their own.

Actually during the mid-late 80's the Yorkshire/Lancashire games were building in terms of public interest before they were scrapped (end of 1991-92, I believe)? Crowds were averaging between 8 and 10 thousand for games that took place on winter weeknights - hardly shabby. A crowd like that might not be anything special for a game between two large counties, but at least it would have been something on which to work. When the Yorks/Lancs games were reintroduced in the mid-00's, the concept just wasn't persevered with for long enough. Did it last more than two seasons? Great way to build up a worthwhile rivallry between two teams and sets of supporters. Bravo to the RFL. Then they dream up the notion of introducing a made-up team that no-one supports with the hope that it will generate interest. Bravo again.

[Blind side johnny]

Actually during the mid-late 80's the Yorkshire/Lancashire games were building in terms of public interest before they were scrapped (end of 1991-92, I believe)? Crowds were averaging between 8 and 10 thousand for games that took place on winter weeknights - hardly shabby. A crowd like that might not be anything special for a game between two large counties, but at least it would have been something on which to work. When the Yorks/Lancs games were reintroduced in the mid-00's, the concept just wasn't persevered with for long enough. Did it last more than two seasons? Great way to build up a worthwhile rivallry between two teams and sets of supporters. Bravo to the RFL. Then they dream up the notion of introducing a made-up team that no-one supports with the hope that it will generate interest. Bravo again.

Yes the series up to 1989 was starting to produce a fair response - over 10K at the last match at Wigan in Sept '89 - but the reprise in the modern era (SL, summer RL etc.) was not at all successful, and it was to this that I was referring. Although looking back many years for evidence is always fraught with error I personally feel that the most recent exercise is more pertinent.

I suppose that it is worth knowing that the original SoO was a shambles, highly unpopular, poorly supported and almost scrapped. a radical change or rules regarding selection caught the public's imagination and it took off from there. It is also the case that SoO can now be pointed at as the major factor in the demise of international RL feeding the inherent Australian narcissism, hence their continual tinkering/bending the rules so that it won't be long before James Graham plays for NSW.

[HaroldShand]

Yes the series up to 1989 was starting to produce a fair response - over 10K at the last match at Wigan in Sept '89 - but the reprise in the modern era (SL, summer RL etc.) was not at all successful, and it was to this that I was referring. Although looking back many years for evidence is always fraught with error I personally feel that the most recent exercise is more pertinent.

I suppose that it is worth knowing that the original SoO was a shambles, highly unpopular, poorly supported and almost scrapped. a radical change or rules regarding selection caught the public's imagination and it took off from there. It is also the case that SoO can now be pointed at as the major factor in the demise of international RL feeding the inherent Australian narcissism, hence their continual tinkering/bending the rules so that it won't be long before James Graham plays for NSW.

Of course the most recent incarnation was relatively unsuccessful - it's always going to take a few years and a bit of perseverance to establish any 'new' concept. What the Roses games did provide, however, was the evenual prospect of a potentially healthy competition between the players and fans of two rival counties. It may have eventually succeeded. What I will predict is that the 'Exiles' idea will NEVER succeed. I did have half a mind to attend the game last night, then decided it would be a waste of time and money as I simply wasn't motivated enough to see a game against a non-supported, artificial outfit that I had no reason to want my country to beat.

[vitocorleone]

Yes the series up to 1989 was starting to produce a fair response - over 10K at the last match at Wigan in Sept '89 - but the reprise in the modern era (SL, summer RL etc.) was not at all successful, and it was to this that I was referring. Although looking back many years for evidence is always fraught with error I personally feel that the most recent exercise is more pertinent.

I suppose that it is worth knowing that the original SoO was a shambles, highly unpopular, poorly supported and almost scrapped. a radical change or rules regarding selection caught the public's imagination and it took off from there. It is also the case that SoO can now be pointed at as the major factor in the demise of international RL feeding the inherent Australian narcissism, hence their continual tinkering/bending the rules so that it won't be long before James Graham plays for NSW.

The 2001 game at Headingley attracted 10,253.

The 2002 game at JJB attracted 7,352 while the reverse fixture at Headingley attracted 9,283.

The 2003 game at Odsal attracted 8,253.

[Blind side johnny]

The 2001 game at Headingley attracted 10,253.

The 2002 game at JJB attracted 7,352 while the reverse fixture at Headingley attracted 9,283.

The 2003 game at Odsal attracted 8,253.

Yes. By successful I really meant the standard of the competition - I should have made that clear. the games were absolute bobbins.

For Harold's edification I clearly have got half a mind (as you have long implied), as I did go last night, and it was just as bad in reality as it was on TV.

Yorks vs Lancs doesn't really work nowadays as it excludes too many players. there also really isn't the enmity that is imagined (by those on this side at least) as in Lancashire they couldn't really care less about such an ancient division. The culture in Oz is quite different and entrenched.

[HaroldShand]

Yes. By successful I really meant the standard of the competition - I should have made that clear. the games were absolute bobbins.

For Harold's edification I clearly have got half a mind (as you have long implied), as I did go last night, and it was just as bad in reality as it was on TV.

Yorks vs Lancs doesn't really work nowadays as it excludes too many players. there also really isn't the enmity that is imagined (by those on this side at least) as in Lancashire they couldn't really care less about such an ancient division. The culture in Oz is quite different and entrenched.

Exactly how have you measured the whole 'Lancastrians couldn't give a toss' notion?? Its a strange, much quoted proposal. Why would they care any less than Yorkshire folk about this 'ancient division'? I certainly don't detect any apathy towards Yorkshire clubs from Lancastrian fans when we journey over the Pennines, judging by the chants I hear. Not at Leigh, especially.

[kiwityke]

we are streets away from the aussies .how many head shots went un punished ,if that had been ganson we would of got all of 10 minutes rugby,the rest would of been given up to penalties,are the hell of a bunch of tough guys , nothing asked for , and nothing given a draw would of been a fair result ,but congrats to the maroons,hope some of our refs watched the game and learnt from it .

Sorry to disagree.
If you are one of the "Bring back the Biff" boys. OK
I am not. I far prefer watching skilfull football.
If the normal NRL rules applied the headshot boys would soon stop the nonsense or let their team down by being sin-binned. There was also too much laying on in the tackle compared with the weekly matches.

[clement]

A couple of things.

It's been tried before and found to be very poor.

The difference between SoO and Yorks/Lancs is much greater than a bit of long-standing rivalry - they really are like separate countries at times.

In match 1 a relatively inexperienced ref sent a NSW player to the sin-bin causing great incredulity and the comment "it's not a club game ref!". In other words the interpretations that are applied to SoO are quite different to those applied in their regular league games where the performances of SL referees would be no better or worse than their own.

It was tried before but if it was given the treatment that this Eng v Exiles series has ie week in camp for both teams,no SL fixtures and some promoting I think it could build into something.You definately need two sets of supporters at a game though.

[grumpyoldram]

It was tried before but if it was given the treatment that this Eng v Exiles series has ie week in camp for both teams,no SL fixtures and some promoting I think it could build into something.You definately need two sets of supporters at a game though.

The number of withdrawals from both sides made the match a joke IMO, and all this rubbish about the number of kids playing for England (all established SL players and over 20 I think) was merely an excuse to justify the inadequacies of the home side. The match did little more than emphasise how dependant the SL has become on overseas players. We might just as well have probables vs possibles matches - at least there would be a bit of edge. I doubt any of the English players on display on Wednesday night would get on the bench of either SOO side.Depressing and disappointing - so much for closing the gap. I reckon our best bet is to start poaching the young talent in the south seas, and make it easier for those who are over here to get citizenship. .

[Blind side johnny]

The number of withdrawals from both sides made the match a joke IMO, and all this rubbish about the number of kids playing for England (all established SL players and over 20 I think) was merely an excuse to justify the inadequacies of the home side. The match did little more than emphasise how dependant the SL has become on overseas players. We might just as well have probables vs possibles matches - at least there would be a bit of edge. I doubt any of the English players on display on Wednesday night would get on the bench of either SOO side.Depressing and disappointing - so much for closing the gap. I reckon our best bet is to start poaching the young talent in the south seas, and make it easier for those who are over here to get citizenship. .

There is no question that this series of matches against an Exiles team is destined to fail if for no other reason than the standard of Aussie/NZ/South Sea journeymen playing here has declined enormously in recent years. Exchange rates and the state of the UK economy, amongst other things, is unlikely to change this in my view.

I personally don't believe that a resurrected Wars of the Roses series is the answer but, in the absence of regular competition with Oz/NZ some sort of higher level challenge is surely necessary.

Edited by Blind side johnny, 06 July 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Blind side johnny]

Exactly how have you measured the whole 'Lancastrians couldn't give a toss' notion?? Its a strange, much quoted proposal. Why would they care any less than Yorkshire folk about this 'ancient division'? I certainly don't detect any apathy towards Yorkshire clubs from Lancastrian fans when we journey over the Pennines, judging by the chants I hear. Not at Leigh, especially.

Coming from Yorkshire means a lot more to Yorkshiremen for some reason than the opposite does to Lancashire men. It is simply a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not. City/Town?neighbourhood loyalty plays a much bigger part West of the Pennines.

[HaroldShand]

It' simply a fact? What evidence is there to prove this? For someone who's normally pedantic at best when it comes to supporting statements with facts and figures, this seems like a real brainfart.

[Blind side johnny]

It' simply a fact? What evidence is there to prove this? For someone who's normally pedantic at best when it comes to supporting statements with facts and figures, this seems like a real brainfart.

You tell me how loyal Yorkshiremen are to the cause then Harold and I'll tell you whether the other lot are greater or less. Insults don't enhance your logical position one iota by the way.