29 replies to this topic

[bowes]

Anyone know what's happening there? They seem to have conceded 3 of their last 4 fixtures but were once a good side.

[audois]

Anyone know what's happening there? They seem to have conceded 3 of their last 4 fixtures but were once a good side.

One of the founder teams? I think Bev Risman was involved there in early days . Dom Peters play there and the Broncos. As you say always considered a bench mark club. South London lost their way a bit too. They had a lot a junior clubs associated at one time. There was a bloke Caro Wild who was big in development in the capital and then went off to Wales. Whats he up to now?

Edited by audois, 16 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[Exiled Townie]

Anyone know what's happening there? They seem to have conceded 3 of their last 4 fixtures but were once a good side.

This is just 'rumour control', but we were told a couple of things affected them. First they moved from their long time Grasshoppers ground to Chiswick rugby union club ground and lost a couple of players/helpers, then one of the main men at the club moved away to another club and took a few more players with him. As I said, just 'rumours', but have been told it by a few different people. They were always one of the top clubs in London rugby, so hope the bounce back soon. (If I have heard wrong, maybe someone 'in the know' can say whats happening.)

Edited by Exiled Townie, 16 July 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[bowes]

I guess they have Hammersmith to compete with now at open age and they've lost their junior section to Staines Titans.

I wonder if the clubs have stagnated just playing in a local league?

South London still have juniors but it doesn't seem to be contributing to open age

[Number 16]

I guess they have Hammersmith to compete with now at open age and they've lost their junior section to Staines Titans.

I wonder if the clubs have stagnated just playing in a local league?

South London still have juniors but it doesn't seem to be contributing to open age

I think that there's some truth in the first two of your statements. As some predicted a couple of years ago, Wests have suffered with the formation of Hammersmith; firstly, due to geography, both clubs are close in London RL terms, and secondly, the Antipodean players have gravitated towards the newer club (something that has impacted on Storm, too).

I agree that clubs in London have stagnated as a result of playing in a local only comp.

On your last point, the comment couldn't be further from the truth. On several occasions this season our first team has fielded 9 or 10 lads from our table-topping and undefeated under 18 team. Storm's problems are many and various, but not fielding youngsters is not one of them.

[bowes]

Sorry meant to say hadn't translated into open age success. But sounds like more of a case of lost Antipodeans?

Would South London consider entering a combined midlands and south league (as was mentioned on RFL press releases) or would travel be too much? Would a semi regionalised format like the early NL3 help

Edited by bowes, 16 July 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Number 16]

Sorry meant to say hadn't translated into open age success. But sounds like more of a case of lost Antipodeans?

Would South London consider entering a combined midlands and south league (as was mentioned on RFL press releases) or would travel be too much?

I'm no longer involved in the club other than as an occasional spectator (flamin' work!), so can't comment in a 'formal' capacity anymore! Informally, my view is that the club is now a long way from competing in anything other than a local competition. To put it bluntly, the Open Age infrastructure is no longer there. That's not a criticism of the guys running the club now - they're a good bunch, doing a pretty good job given the circumstances, but I don't think that enough of them have the time or desire to put in the effort needed to take the club back up to the next level again. Given the club's recent history, they're doing a grand job just keeping the team on the field.

From 2008 to 2010, IMHO and from what I heard, the club was poorly managed, and went backwards at a rate of knots - income dried up (to put it one way ), it lost its established ground (S-C RFC), players drifted away, and coaches came and went. At the back end of 2010 Storm OA were close to folding. A few of the 'old guard' stepped into the breach last year and kept the club going, but, as they understandably said at the outset, their involvement was temporary.

This may sound strange given that the club's home ground is a state-of-the-art 3G pitch funded, in the main, by the RFL, but it's the general facilities themselves that pose the biggest stumbling block to progress. All Storm's age groups play there, but the total lack of a clubhouse/bar/catering is hindering the creation of a real community club environment. Players train and go. Play and go. Until this is resolved I think that Storm will struggle to move forward.

[Methven Hornet]

I'm no longer involved in the club other than as an occasional spectator (flamin' work!), so can't comment in a 'formal' capacity anymore! Informally, my view is that the club is now a long way from competing in anything other than a local competition. To put it bluntly, the Open Age infrastructure is no longer there. That's not a criticism of the guys running the club now - they're a good bunch, doing a pretty good job given the circumstances, but I don't think that enough of them have the time or desire to put in the effort needed to take the club back up to the next level again. Given the club's recent history, they're doing a grand job just keeping the team on the field.

From 2008 to 2010, IMHO and from what I heard, the club was poorly managed, and went backwards at a rate of knots - income dried up (to put it one way ), it lost its established ground (S-C RFC), players drifted away, and coaches came and went. At the back end of 2010 Storm OA were close to folding. A few of the 'old guard' stepped into the breach last year and kept the club going, but, as they understandably said at the outset, their involvement was temporary.

This may sound strange given that the club's home ground is a state-of-the-art 3G pitch funded, in the main, by the RFL, but it's the general facilities themselves that pose the biggest stumbling block to progress. All Storm's age groups play there, but the total lack of a clubhouse/bar/catering is hindering the creation of a real community club environment. Players train and go. Play and go. Until this is resolved I think that Storm will struggle to move forward.

Do you know if there are any plans to resolve the lack of clubhouse?

All this sounds deeply depressing, and I'm sure it is for the people still involved with Souths and Wests (and for past members too). It had seemed that the premier clubs in London were strong and progressing.

Wasn't the idea of the Summer Conference in London to build strong 'area' clubs, and weren't Souths and Wests formed out of mergers of existing clubs in the locality? It seems a shame that the game's authorities have allowed other clubs to be formed in the vicinity, and it looks as though the situation is returning to the old days of the old London League with lots of small, weak (and often temporary) clubs competing for players, leaders, volunteers, etc.

Hope the situation improves.

[bowes]

West London were based on earlier clubs (Brent-Ealing and London Colonials), South London were founded as a brand new club to fill a void. I don't agree with banning new clubs as often the existing one can get complacent and be run into the ground. Even when they were 2 of the top 3 in south premier I remember Wests and Souths were allegedly against any kind of higher level leading the RFL to scrap plans for a league of the best of the midlands and south (plus Hemel wanted to play up north)

[Methven Hornet]

West London were based on earlier clubs (Brent-Ealing and London Colonials), South London were founded as a brand new club to fill a void. I don't agree with banning new clubs as often the existing one can get complacent and be run into the ground. Even when they were 2 of the top 3 in south premier I remember Wests and Souths were allegedly against any kind of higher level leading the RFL to scrap plans for a league of the best of the midlands and south (plus Hemel wanted to play up north)

What was the void in south London? There had previously been clubs in the area - had they been lost?

I can see your point about being free to start up new clubs, but when there is a shortage of personnel then it can weaken the sport as a whole. I know athletics used yo have a policy that prevented athletics clubs being set up in communities that were already adequately served. It helped prevent the fragmentation of provision in what can be a very technical sport - and it did prevent the big egos from going off in a huff and setting up a rival club just because they couldn't get their own way at an existing club.

[Tusbab]

Of course, no discussion of South London Storm would be complete without a reference to Giovanni Cinque.

Perhaps Number 16 could enlighten us a little further.

[bowes]

What was the void in south London? There had previously been clubs in the area - had they been lost?

I can see your point about being free to start up new clubs, but when there is a shortage of personnel then it can weaken the sport as a whole. I know athletics used yo have a policy that prevented athletics clubs being set up in communities that were already adequately served. It helped prevent the fragmentation of provision in what can be a very technical sport - and it did prevent the big egos from going off in a huff and setting up a rival club just because they couldn't get their own way at an existing club.

There are occasions when it is damaging to have multiple clubs (eg when Wolverhampton had 2 clubs) but I don't think Hammersmith should have been blocked.

But yes London Warriors and Peckham had folded maybe a couple of years before South London formed.

[Marauder]

There are occasions when it is damaging to have multiple clubs (eg when Wolverhampton had 2 clubs) but I don't think Hammersmith should have been blocked.

But yes London Warriors and Peckham had folded maybe a couple of years before South London formed.

Merger between Brent Ealing and the London Colonials - Wests will be OK if they can keep the youngsters together, it's a massive jump from age-group rugby to open-age, many years ago we had many players retiring all at once and we had to bring a batch of youngsters into the first team, Including players such as Dave Knott, Shaun Carver, Mark Roach and Colin Witton who had been in the Castleford Tigers Colts championship winning side that included the likes of Danny Orr, Andy Lynch and Jamie Benn to mention a few.

[bowes]

Merger between Brent Ealing and the London Colonials - Wests will be OK if they can keep the youngsters together, it's a massive jump from age-group rugby to open-age, many years ago we had many players retiring all at once and we had to bring a batch of youngsters into the first team, Including players such as Dave Knott, Shaun Carver, Mark Roach and Colin Witton who had been in the Castleford Tigers Colts championship winning side that included the likes of Danny Orr, Andy Lynch and Jamie Benn to mention a few.

West London don't run any juniors

[Marauder]

West London don't run any juniors

Sorry that should have (can't multi task) said Souths will be ok.

[bowes]

Sorry that should have (can't multi task) said Souths will be ok.

That I agree with. What level they'll be I don't know but I think they'll survive in some guise.

[PhilCarrington]

Merger between Brent Ealing and the London Colonials - Wests will be OK if they can keep the youngsters together, it's a massive jump from age-group rugby to open-age, many years ago we had many players retiring all at once and we had to bring a batch of youngsters into the first team, Including players such as Dave Knott, Shaun Carver, Mark Roach and Colin Witton who had been in the Castleford Tigers Colts championship winning side that included the likes of Danny Orr, Andy Lynch and Jamie Benn to mention a few.

Brent Ealing and Colonials disappeared at the end of the last century.

Bowes - Colonials did not merge into West London at the start of the Southern Conference, they lasted about another 4 years in the London League.

Hope the current problems are temporary blips. But it does suggest that there won't be any teams from the south to step up to the proposed southern/midlands league. Hammersmith are unlikely to relish the travelling and Skolars A are only now recovering after problems 2 years ago.

[bowes]

Brent Ealing and Colonials disappeared at the end of the last century.

Bowes - Colonials did not merge into West London at the start of the Southern Conference, they lasted about another 4 years in the London League.

Hope the current problems are temporary blips. But it does suggest that there won't be any teams from the south to step up to the proposed southern/midlands league. Hammersmith are unlikely to relish the travelling and Skolars A are only now recovering after problems 2 years ago.

Eastern Rhinos possibly would plus Leicester and Northampton but that only leaves us with 6 (Bristol, St Albans and South Wales Hornets) so not viable. Maybe if they based it on the early NL3 with minimised long away trips? The more likely scenario is back to local leagues for Bristol and St Albans and forced folding for Hornets.

I'm aware of that with Colonials hence my avoidance of the word merger but they did use players.

[Methven Hornet]

There are occasions when it is damaging to have multiple clubs (eg when Wolverhampton had 2 clubs) but I don't think Hammersmith should have been blocked.

But yes London Warriors and Peckham had folded maybe a couple of years before South London formed.

Wasn't there also a previous South London club, lots of antipodeans and pretty successful?

[bowes]

Wasn't there also a previous South London club, lots of antipodeans and pretty successful?

Yes they became London Warriors