505 replies to this topic

[OMEGA]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/18944832

Franchising hasn't achieved it's stated goals and IMO has actually contributed to the financial ruin of a number of clubs (some we don't know about yet).

When BoDs have the security of three years SL money they seem to take bigger gambles and when it goes wrong the fall is from a much greater height with unprecedented levels of debt being involved.

There are better ways of creating circumstances that allow clubs to blood youngsters and home grown players, specifically via the salary cap.

While we're at it can we have our GB Lions/Ashes series back just as we were promised during the PR spin when the home Nations teams were split up.

[westhuller]

Is it too late are ?Are there too many clubs in SL that would not survive the drop because of there financial mess ? It would be a big gamble I could not see some clubs voting for it.

[Johnoco]

If we bring back regular p & r, I demand we give it 3 years and if the sport hasn't overtaken soccer by then remove it. No quibbling, its long enough.

I also say we start pretending the GB team was really a GB team.

[jannerboyuk]

im a supporter of p and r and as long as they create a decent run in time i'll be more than happy to see its return. this should be considered on its own merits ignoring the idiots "it didn't do what it said in three years" camp.

as for less clubs, absolutely as long as the clubs that demand it the most get the chop.

[jannerboyuk]

Is it too late are ?Are there too many clubs in SL that would not survive the drop because of there financial mess ? It would be a big gamble I could not see some clubs voting for it.

yes its too late rugby league closed own yesterday. all over.

[westhuller]

yes its too late rugby league closed own yesterday. all over.

what do you mean Janner ?

[Matt J]

Im a fan or P+R, but the only way for it to be a success is if theres a division below it strong enough to a) go up from and get placed into it.

The Championship isn't at that level yet, maybe after 2 more rounds the RFL can do enough ground work with the Championship for this to happen.

[JohnM]

Anyone got a link to the actual report or are we to base the whole discussion on a syndicated piece. I can't see anywhere that mentions bringing back p and r other than "It has been quite clear from the consultation process that a further discussion about the direction, vision and strategy for the sport for the next five to 10 years should quickly follow, focusing particularly on the size and structure of the leagues, licensing and promotion/relegation and the sustainability of clubs," said Watkins..

Have I missed something?

[GeordieSaint]

Im a fan or P+R, but the only way for it to be a success is if theres a division below it strong enough to a) go up from and get placed into it.

The Championship isn't at that level yet, maybe after 2 more rounds the RFL can do enough ground work with the Championship for this to happen.

A very sensible post. There are some great strides being made in the Championship with your club and Halifax working towards the goal of SL. Sheffield look to be making similar movements to improve their club as a whole and reduce the gap between these clubs and SL. The RFL have made some decisions through the Watkins report. Prematurely making the decision to reintroduce P&R will have a negative impact on clubs such as Leigh etc in my opinion. When the gap has been reduced between the two leagues to a sustainable level to allow P&R to be reintroduced, only then should it be done so!

[GeordieSaint]

Anyone got a link to the actual report or are we to base the whole discussion on a syndicated piece. I can't see anywhere that mentions bringing back p and r other than "It has been quite clear from the consultation process that a further discussion about the direction, vision and strategy for the sport for the next five to 10 years should quickly follow, focusing particularly on the size and structure of the leagues, licensing and promotion/relegation and the sustainability of clubs," said Watkins..

Have I missed something?

http://www.therfl.co...tkinsReview.pdf

P&R is one small part of the game the RFL will be reviewing:

16. The RFL Chief Executive immediately lead a review into the current RFL policies on:
a.Competition structures and game integration.
b. Super League Licensing and Promotion/Relegation.
c. Club sustainability and the appropriate level of RFL support for clubs.
d. Youth development and player production systems.
e. Expansion of the sport and RFL’s responsibility for European development

The BBC report is misleading in my opinion.

Edited by GeordieSaint, 22 July 2012 - 01:20 PM.

[Li0nhead]

There has to be a balance.

In principle i believe the worst team in one comp should naturally be replaced by the best team in the next comp down.

But in reality this leads to teams taking a SuperLeague or bust attitude. Where someone in the division below starts throwing silly money about (which they cannot really afford and despite the caps) to get a squad together to win with the intention of paying off the debts incurred when they reach the promised land of Superleague. But a spanner gets thrown in the works (like 2 other teams doing the same or SL not letting them in) and they don't get to SL so go bust (Or as near to it) and fall down the leagues. It has happened before.

Therefore you get todays situation where a team has to show success on the field. Have to show they are sustainable for a period off the field.
Not ideal but it beats teams overextending themselves out of business.

[Methven Hornet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/18944832

Franchising hasn't achieved it's stated goals and IMO has actually contributed to the financial ruin of a number of clubs (some we don't know about yet).

Hardly surprising, since the game of rugby league in Britain has never gone anywhere near franchising. Now that you mention it, though, it could be quite a good idea.

When BoDs have the security of three years SL money they seem to take bigger gambles and when it goes wrong the fall is from a much greater height with unprecedented levels of debt being involved.

When there is the threat of a disastrous drop based upon one season's results on the field, regardless of how strong overall the club is, BoD's seem to take bigger gambles by spending too much on players to keep them up. Likewise, clubs from lower leagues tend to take bigger gambles with their future by overspending in order to win promotion on the pitch.

There are better ways of creating circumstances that allow clubs to blood youngsters and home grown players, specifically via the salary cap.

When your club is struggling against a disastrous relegation, or busting a gut trying to win promotion?

While we're at it can we have our GB Lions/Ashes series back just as we were promised during the PR spin when the home Nations teams were split up.

No, you can have a Combined Northern Counties rep team and be satisfied - there are no Welsh union stars going to come into the game these days to give a 'Team GB' even the thinnest veneers of legitimacy.

[Methven Hornet]

http://www.therfl.co...tkinsReview.pdf

P&R is one small part of the game the RFL will be reviewing:

16. The RFL Chief Executive immediately lead a review into the current RFL policies on:
a.Competition structures and game integration.
b. Super League Licensing and Promotion/Relegation.
c. Club sustainability and the appropriate level of RFL support for clubs.
d. Youth development and player production systems.
e. Expansion of the sport and RFL’s responsibility for European development

The BBC report is misleading in my opinion.

Of course, the review could decide to scrap all promotion and relegation in and out of Super League, ie no longer would a Championship club be guaranteed a SL place every three years.

[Just to be clear]

Just to be clear, after the completion of the first attempt at trying something new, those responsible intend to review how it went and see what they can learn to decide the best way of acting in the future.

And this is considered news?

[Methven Hornet]

Just to be informative, the report contains the following points about who makes decisions relating to Super League

The Articles of SLE also reserve decision making powers to the club shareholders on a number of issues.

Only the club shareholders have the power to agree:

a. The competition broadcasting agreement.

b. The title sponsorship of the competition.

c. The number of rounds to be played in the Super League.

d. The format of the Super League.

e. The allocation of central television distributions, prize money and trading surpluses.

The Articles also confirm those issues upon which decisions can only be made where the approval of a

majority of Super League clubs and the RFL has been obtained. They are:

a. The number of clubs to play in Super League.

b. The Super League Salary Cap Regulations.

c. The name of Super League.

d. Promotion and relegation to/from Super League.

e. Commitment to the RFL Fixture List.

f. Obligation of each club to enter the Challenge Cup.

g. Ownership of more than one club.

Any re-introduction of P & R, therefore, would need the approval of a majority of current Super League clubs.

[guess who]

Looks like it may be coming back

Can it be good for the game?
Is the current system proving to be the wrong one?

[MrPosh]

P&R would be ideal, from a sporting point of view - and that is, after all, what we are playing.

However, I look around all of the clubs and at no time in the twenty or so years that I have followed the game, have I seen so many promising young players - across all of the clubs. Is that a coincidence?

[Padge]

I hope auto P&R does not come back, it'll be a disaster for the game.

P&R has not gone away actually, it just operates differently to how people are used to, it operates in a way that actually benefits the promoted club.

Also the first thing to happen if auto P&R returns is the salary cap will be blown apart, the money clubs will not want to be handicapped by a salary cap if they can afford to buy their way out of trouble, they will very soon force through a raise in the cap that means nobody can catch them.

[creditwhereitsdews]

Anything to make this so called "sport" less contrived, corrupt and greed-ridden has to be welcomed. Maybe we can have such things as "clubs" again instead of f********s. It really hasn't felt like a sport for so long now and has been nearing American Wrestling proportions. Everything decided off the field or with baffling made-for-TV play-off systems favouring those with the biggest bank account. Let's hope it's a transparent two up/two down system based on a team's performance on the field only.

[gingerjon]

We haven't been the Aussies since we started P&R. It's been nothing but a disaster.

Oh, and merge this thread with this, earlier one, http://www.totalrl.c...-bring-back-pr/