144 replies to this topic

[Sam Armstrong]

I'd also like to know how they are going to solve the problem of kids going away during the summer months.

I do apologise, I tend to forget that your blinkers get in the way and stop you from seeing what doesn't quite fit in with your argument...

It was explained that it had been the Clubs who had, from the outset, requested the "Festival Period" break be built in to the calendar as Coaches, Players & sometimes whole teams, as touring parties, were likely to be unavailable.

It had been anticipated that Clubs would use this time for their own fundraising Festivals & Tournaments and that participation in these events would maintain contact between teams and their players.

This extended break seemed to split opinion as some felt it worked whilst others said priority should be focussed on regular, competitive, rugby league.

How did BARLA directly address the same problem as, if anything, it would have been worse playing Sept - March as the kids would not have played competitively since the end of March until September? That's right by doing precisely what was listed above .... well, without any actual help promoting the Festivals or Tournaments on their website.

[TaxiEgg]

Sam you seem to be forgetting there was a second playing season proposal which took us BEYOND March running into May/ June .I will resend you the documentation to refresh your memory.

What you are also forgetting that there will be no rugby played from the end of November to March this time ,hell of a long time with no scheduled playing activity again another big gamble .

We are Barla your argument is with the Board of Management ( Of which we share some of the same concerns ) so dont confuse the two, and dont put all your faith in the RFL remember the quote attributed to Mr Gent " there will be collatoral damage " we have yet to have that realised .
Better the devil you know .

[Sam Armstrong]

You would still have had the same problems just moving the dates around. Play through to June and you still have the same July/August Summer holiday issues plus the added problem of getting kids re-enthused to go back to their clubs in potentially colder wetter weather after a winter break would. in my opinion, be even worse.

I don't think that the term "collateral damage" was made flippantly but merely recognised that there were going to be those Clubs who could happily move, those Clubs & new players who would now get involved due to the change and those Clubs who the new playing time was not what they wanted but if say 99% voted to move they may, either have to accept it and go with the flow or make their own arrangements.

[gillmeister]

I think Taxi Egg and Sam, you guys are both "New" BARLA, the type of people who are needed to make the organisation a viable one for the future

[Sam Armstrong]

In all honesty Gillmeister there is a "NEW BARLA" looking after the Community/Youth & Junior game in the form of the Y & J Management Group which is open to, and has been attended by at various points, all UK Leagues . In fairness, some of those, including BARLA, are attending less often than others but with the seemingly "ever-presents" of the NW Counties 8-12s, NW Counties 13-15s, NW Youth, Yorkshire Juniors, West Riding, Hull & District, Cumbria and the Midlands Leagues there is a great deal of experience around the table but with the added bonus that we all seem to be working and pulling together in the same direction.

We meet regularly, typically quarterly, have agendas with corresponding Minutes & action points to be taken away. ALL our Clubs can feedback their concerns via the League into this body as we always notify them beforehand that the meeting is coming up and ask if there is anything they wish to raise.

Via this (though at the time it was titled the Y & J Forum), the move to summer was openly discussed and jointly planned for years before the final move was made.

We also get the opportunity to benchmark against each other and if one League does something considerably better than another we have the chance to discuss it informally but face to face with them and, in some cases, have incorporated into our procedures etc ... one thing we at 13-15s from the 8-12s was the idea of Development Cups and is something we have now run succesfully for the benefit of our Clubs and players for three or four seasons.

We also from this launched in conjunction with the Yorkshire Juniors our annual "Wars of the Roses" Challenges which helped both Leagues raise money for worthy causes (Help for Heroes & The NW Air Ambulance Charity) as well as giving our players a chance to experience a new and exciting competitrion and make new friends.

From a Y & J perspective I honestly don't see the need for BARLA and, as they are predominantly pre-occupied solely with older age groups and touring leaving them basically with little interest in the younger ages.

They did used to hold regular, similar, Y & J Councils but these have to all intents and purposes become a seemingly annual event attended by just all three NW Leagues, West Riding & Yorkshire Combination (as they have 3 of the4 BARLA Y & J Reps anyway though they rarely all bother to attend) and ... well that's pretty much it.

Most items on their agenda became "... I'm not sure what that is about as he's not here" or " .... did the RFL involve you in ....?" with little, if anything, resulting from the meeting other than an acknowledgement of the Associations' apathy to the age-groups!

As I've said before it is, despite it's once great importance, a shadow of it's former self and needs to pull the plug or ditch the deadwood i.e. those who just like parading in their blazers & ties whilst doing little, and completely re-invent itself as part of the bigger NATIONAL picture, playing ball with everyone else instead of their continued stance of them and us with them as the tail trying to wag the dog!

[TaxiEgg]

Sam what your saying does not make sense re the winterbreak not working , we had a winter break for over five seasons and it did and worked well with little or no fall in numbers or teams folding.
We now have a much longer winter break so are you saying a break will work if we call it a summer/ winter break but it wont work if it is simply a winter break.

And you have no experience of a winter break because your league never gave it a try so how can you say it wont work ?

Very confusing Sam.

Who,s idea was the Development cups ? We evolved the concept 11 years ago one of our better ideas .

We have always worked together as leagues thats nothing new ( some better than others ) .

Edited by TaxiEgg, 17 August 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[Sam Armstrong]

I acknowledged that the Development Cups were your idea which we adopted as a benchmark from yourselves.

Whilst the dates would be the same. the concept of a Winter Break at your age-groups and ours are not the same as our kids have other, more mature, interests outside of their parents supervision than at younger ages as they develop their own individuality and opinions in the same way as Junior School & High School kids do not think and act the same way. At 8-12s I am assuming that the majority of the players are accompanied to and at games by their Mums & Dads which is not always the case as they get older when a lot of teenagers do not want accompanying by an embarassing parent and do not want to be told they MUST do something!!!

Try to force a teenager out on a cold day and you are facing a battle. They want to do it if it suits "them" whereas a 6, 7 or 8 year old would be more influenced by what Mum, though more probably Dad, wanted them to do.

Ever seen Kevin & Perry?? LOL

There is no doubt that it seemed to work well at your ages but we didn't, and still don't, "think" it would at ours. We could as you say be completely wrong but we have now committed ourselves with the majority opinion and what our Clubs voted for.

Edited by Sam Armstrong, 17 August 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[Wilber]

Try to force a teenager out on a cold day and you are facing a battle. They want to do it if it suits "them" whereas a 6, 7 or 8 year old would be more influenced by what Mum, though more probably Dad, wanted them to do.

Ever seen Kevin & Perry??

You are so far of the mark with your comments its unreal.

Having children brings differant challenges everyweek and trust me when i say Keving and Perry is nothing like reality. Kids who want to play just get on and play without fuss or groan those that do sulk and moan often dont last long anyway. Rugby League is a passion made for many differant types of players but ultimatley the kid, or adult, must want to play it when he wants to not when he is told he has to? Most kids of 6,7 & 8 etc would play 12 months of the year regardless of conditions given the opportuniy. My only conclusion is you have no kids of your own or non which are of an age capaable of playing rugby

This is where i think some have got it wrong, the game is not primarily about the coaches and the parents or business its about the children and adults that want to play the sport. Many often loose sight of what is actually important and that is 13 aside Rugby League and its survival.

Just remember when all are pontificating who does a good job and who does not; its not about you and them its about the sport and i for one want it to continue and prosper not fade away.

Edited by Wilber, 17 August 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[TaxiEgg]

Sam , as someone who has played the game coached children and fathered two rugby playing sons who both have played from 6 to open age , I think i am more than aware of what Kids want and dont want.

Good to now find out your mentor is Harry Enfield

[Marauder]

I do apologise, I tend to forget that your blinkers get in the way and stop you from seeing what doesn't quite fit in with your argument...


How did BARLA directly address the same problem as, if anything, it would have been worse playing Sept - March as the kids would not have played competitively since the end of March until September? That's right by doing precisely what was listed above .... well, without any actual help promoting the Festivals or Tournaments on their website.

I'm a father of 4 grown up kids and I'm sure the only time I took them away during the traditional season was a week at new year, the other times where during the summer and mainly in the 6 weeks holiday period, we did however go to the Mother-in-laws caravan on the odd weekends and sometimes the kids went with their grandparents.

Did you consult the clubs and MW committee or did you make the decision on your todd http://www.barla.org...ils.asp?id=2979


And I can't be bought, not even a knighthood would make me change my mind.

Edited by Marauder, 17 August 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[LordCharles]

Friday August 17th 2012


BARLA TO CREATE & IMPLEMENT A YOUTH & JUNIOR LEAGUE IN THE TRADITIONAL SEASON FOR UNDER 13-18’s IN THE NORTH WEST REGION


As a result of extensive feedback received from the community clubs regarding the recent BARLA press release the BARLA board of management have today made contact with Sam Armstrong of the NWC Youth & Junior Leagues and openly asked if the NWC Youth & Junior Leagues intend to offer a solution to those clubs who are currently looking to play rugby league within a traditional season of September to May. Mr Armstrong informed BARLA that the NWC Youth & Junior Leagues had no intention of offering an alternative season and were fully committed to continuing with the existing March to November season.

As a direct result of the stance from the NWC Youth & Junior Leagues the BARLA Board of Management have now made a solid commitment to move forward with the proposal of supporting the creation and implementation of a new Youth & Junior league from U13’s – U18’s in the North West.

BARLA state clearly that they are supportive of the Community Board policy and still endorse a summer based programme, however feel that in line with the four seasons ethos and the feedback received from the Community clubs it is important to provide a structured and original alternative for those clubs at Youth & Junior level within the North West region who feel they have not seen the benefit of playing within the current March – November season.

As such BARLA are fully committed from an administrative and financial perspective to support the proposed new league in delivering a structured league and cup competition format for all its members, whilst also looking through the new league to pilot innovative initiatives that will convey a more proactive stance and allow BARLA to address current issues, both administratively and financially, across the Junior, Youth and Open Age programme.

Conscious of the current economic climate and the effect it is having within the Junior, Youth and Open Age environment BARLA will be looking to assist their regional leagues in various formats and the board of management have also pledged assurances that in association with their regional leagues they are committed in the long term to strengthening and developing productive working relationships.

The board of management vow to work efficiently and effectively with existing partners and endeavour to attract new partners in order to create increasing opportunities that may in the long term have the potential to allow assistance via various financial and administrative formats to be available on a continual basis for all BARLA leagues and member clubs of those leagues.

BARLA will now look to deliver this innovative, constructive and exciting platform for clubs that wish to participate within a more traditional September to May season via a group of experienced administrators in the North West region and will outline the full proposal in more detail to all Youth & Junior clubs.

The Youth & Junior clubs will, through formal written correspondence, be invited to attend a meeting within the North West region prior to the 9th September 2012 to meet with BARLA and discuss the proposal further and present any questions they may have in relation to the opportunity of returning to a traditional season under the administration of a BARLA member league.

Steve Manning
BARLA Media Manager

Edited by LordCharles, 17 August 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[Marauder]

You are so far of the mark with your comments its unreal.

Having children brings differant challenges everyweek and trust me when i say Keving and Perry is nothing like reality. Kids who want to play just get on and play without fuss or groan those that do sulk and moan often dont last long anyway. Rugby League is a passion made for many differant types of players but ultimatley the kid, or adult, must want to play it when he wants to not when he is told he has to? Most kids of 6,7 & 8 etc would play 12 months of the year regardless of conditions given the opportuniy. My only conclusion is you have no kids of your own or non which are of an age capaable of playing rugby

This is where i think some have got it wrong, the game is not primarily about the coaches and the parents or business its about the children and adults that want to play the sport. Many often loose sight of what is actually important and that is 13 aside Rugby League and its survival.

Just remember when all are pontificating who does a good job and who does not; its not about you and them its about the sport and i for one want it to continue and prosper not fade away.

I've found in the past it's not the kids (they love mud) it's the mams and dads, we've addressed this problem with a canteen container that has power to it so the mums and dads can make a cuppa and sit in the warmth

[TaxiEgg]

DAY DO DAT DER DONT DE ( say in scouse accent )

[Sam Armstrong]

How very convenient of BARLA's Mr Manning to quote only a small part of what I actually replied to him.

I actually stated that the NW Counties 13-15s did not intend to run a winter league at the present time as not a single one of our Clubs had approached us to request us to do so! !!!

[EdinburghExile]

I've found in the past it's not the kids (they love mud) it's the mams and dads, we've addressed this problem with a canteen container that has power to it so the mums and dads can make a cuppa and sit in the warmth

I bloody hated it! First time getting tackled into the morass on a crappy day was hellish.

[LordCharles]

How very convenient of BARLA's Mr Manning to quote only a small part of what I actually replied to him.

I actually stated that the NW Counties 13-15s did not intend to run a winter league at the present time as not a single one of our Clubs had approached us to request us to do so! !!!

Really .........................funny that because when I attended that SGM on Monday and asked Margaret "Why not ask the clubs now what they want" the very open and public reply was "because we as leagues are working together and have made a commitment to remain with the March to November season". Which incidentally dismissed the possibility immediately of actually asking the clubs what they wanted at this time.

So are you saying that now that your not but the 16's to 18's are going to offer an alternative to the March - November season? Because on Monday night that was not the case was it?

Not entirely sure what you are saying here Sam because I can imagine your smug answer would have been exactly what the chap from BARLA has stated and its further backed up by the statement made by Margaret on Monday..................so whats your point again? He did'nt quite say it smug enough perhaps?

Anyway its not like you to make decisions for an entire Regional League without asking the members now is it?

M O U

Edited by LordCharles, 17 August 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Sam Armstrong]

I stated that we had not been asked by a single one of our Clubs to run a winter league and btw we did ask, formally, what our Clubs wanted before changing seasons and the vote was for a move to a Summer oriented programme.

You will also recall that Margaret asked if any of the Clubs present had approached BARLA to state a preference for a return to Winter .... you may remember that not a single Club said they had..

As for what the 16-18s are going to do I am not in a position to speak for the NW Youth League just the NW Counties 13-15s though Mr Manning clearly doesn't understand or realise that we are separate!

While contesting what others said or did, do you also recall several Clubs challenging your personal views .... does that ring a bell? When you were told you were being rude & bad mannered to guests, or when you were told in no uncertain terms by other attendees that all you did was you repeat the same things over and over again or when it was made clear to you that the issue was not solely, as you seemed to believe, about your single age-group?? Hmmmm.

And by the way, whilst I understand you would undoubtedly recognise smug as you certainly were trying to be on Monday (until challenged after which you were very quiet until you got behind your keyboard again), I am simply just stating, factually, what our Clubs have informed us.

[Marauder]

I bloody hated it! First time getting tackled into the morass on a crappy day was hellish.

Our kids loved it when one certain coach (PTI Parra's) used to take them, when working on the defensive line he would call take cover, they would drop to the floor and start doing the leopard crawl through the mud, right or wrong the kids loved it.

[Marauder]

Really .........................funny that because when I attended that SGM on Monday and asked Margaret "Why not ask the clubs now what they want" the very open and public reply was "because we as leagues are working together and have made a commitment to remain with the March to November season". Which incidentally dismissed the possibility immediately of actually asking the clubs what they wanted at this time.

So are you saying that now that your not but the 16's to 18's are going to offer an alternative to the March - November season? Because on Monday night that was not the case was it?

Not entirely sure what you are saying here Sam because I can imagine your smug answer would have been exactly what the chap from BARLA has stated and its further backed up by the statement made by Margaret on Monday..................so whats your point again? He did'nt quite say it smug enough perhaps?

Anyway its not like you to make decisions for an entire Regional League without asking the members now is it?

M O U

Will not be able to ask the floor what they want because the RFL will need time to run around the clubs.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nrs8CgpH980

[Marauder]

I stated that we had not been asked by a single one of our Clubs to run a winter league and btw we did ask, formally, what our Clubs wanted before changing seasons and the vote was for a move to a Summer oriented programme.

You will also recall that Margaret asked if any of the Clubs present had approached BARLA to state a preference for a return to Winter .... you may remember that not a single Club said they had..

As for what the 16-18s are going to do I am not in a position to speak for the NW Youth League just the NW Counties 13-15s though Mr Manning clearly doesn't understand or realise that we are separate!

While contesting what others said or did, do you also recall several Clubs challenging your personal views .... does that ring a bell? When you were told you were being rude & bad mannered to guests, or when you were told in no uncertain terms by other attendees that all you did was you repeat the same things over and over again or when it was made clear to you that the issue was not solely, as you seemed to believe, about your single age-group?? Hmmmm.

And by the way, whilst I understand you would undoubtedly recognise smug as you certainly were trying to be on Monday (until challenged after which you were very quiet until you got behind your keyboard again), I am simply just stating, factually, what our Clubs have informed us.

What was the main purpose of the meeting