50 replies to this topic

[Griff9of13]

Linky

Good timing as MPs are currently in the middle of their 8 week summer break. You couldn't make it up!

[westhuller]

There obviously must be talking about there butlers and peasants who tend there gardens.Ever so often the Tories drop there guard and tell us what they really think of the working oiks.

Edited by westhuller, 18 August 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[getdownmonkeyman]

Linky

Good timing as MPs are currently in the middle of their 8 week summer break. You couldn't make it up!

The irony wasn't lost on me, either!

[Trojan]

So much for Dave the Kipper "detoxifying" the Tory brand. If you rub hard enough the nastiness is there just under the surface.

[GeordieSaint]

Isn't it a true statement though that UK worker productivity is lower than our competitors? I am sure I remember reading about that in a few places.

[Marauder]

Isn't it a true statement though that UK worker productivity is lower than our competitors? I am sure I remember reading about that in a few places.

Blame the management.

[JohnM]

Correct. The productivity gap (output per person) between the UK and say Germany is closing...mainly because in the UK, lack of investment is compensated for by longer working hours in the UK. Its a bit more complex than that, but near enough.

Edited by JohnM, 19 August 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Correct. The productivity gap (output per person) between the UK and say Germany is closing...mainly because in the UK, lack of investment is compensated for by longer working hours in the UK. Its a bit more complex than that, but near enough.

http://www.prnewswir...-154794285.html

it is more complicated

[chuffer]

http://www.prnewswir...-154794285.html

it is more complicated

"The company claimed it achieved higher levels of output by using a young, well-motivated workforce"

.....it would be interesting to see what percentage of this "well-motivated workforce" are actually British

[JohnM]

http://www.prnewswir...-154794285.html

it is more complicated

I did say that it was more complex. These are 12 year old figures, The quote covers three things: "The company claimed it achieved higher levels of output by using a young, well-motivated workforce, Nissan's lean Japanese manufacturing model and the established practice of continuous improvement, or 'kaizen'."

In addition, "the company succeeded in slightly reducing its total workforce while..... Output increased from 271,157 in 1999 to 327,701 in 2000. "

Nissan and the automotive industry in general is ( now) a beacon of investment excellence.

[JohnM]

See also http://www.ons.gov.u...cp-mar2012.html

and this: "The key challenge we face in the UK is that we underperform on investment, in technology and manufacturing plants in comparison with other industrial nations – for example the investment level is 35% lower in the UK than in Germany," comments Siemens Industry Sector UK and Ireland managing director Juergen Maier.


See http://www.machinery...-to-hear/41426/


Juergen Maier is a passionate advocate of and supporter of manufacturing in the UK - I know because I have spoken to him about this and have documented several examples within Siemens.

see http://menmedia.co.u..._boys_done_good

Edited by JohnM, 20 August 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Griff9of13]

This would suggest that the average UK worker puts in the hours and is 3rd in terms of hours worked in the EU. How productive they are is down to many factors (as mentioned above by JohnM etc) and to say lack of productivity is down to worker laziness is in itself laziness from the authors.

[JohnM]

"laziness from the authors." and ignorance...and stupidity......butthen I read this: http://www.dominicra.../about_dom.html and this:http://www.elizabeth...izabeth-truss-0 and thought that no, maybe not ignorant and not stupid. On the basis of " don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" I wonder what their solution might be?

[GeordieSaint]

This would suggest that the average UK worker puts in the hours and is 3rd in terms of hours worked in the EU.

The link is obviously flawed - it has the Greeks as joint 1st!

Edited by GeordieSaint, 20 August 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[dhw]

I find it strange that a group of MPs involved in free-enterprise are completely unaware the UK has one of the highest rates of independent contractors in the world, work more hours than most countries in the EU and one of the most flexible work forces. Comparisons with Singapore are strange many companies in financial services and hi-tech companies have outsourced their work to Singapore and have seen their productivity drop significantly despite a high head count. Hong Kong & South Korea have particular reasons for their own productivity or lack of it.

What has not been picked up here is the fact they want lower taxation for entrepreneurs, small business corporation tax is currently 20% but setting up and running a business in the UK is more difficult than most other countries despite that it still attracts significant investment due to the opportunities available and most important the hardworking workforce in the UK.

[Wolford6]

We have a vastly reduced industrial sector and attendant reduction in apprenticeships. without a trade or a production-based environment, what incentive is there for Britons to slog their guts out. A fully stacked shelf will never provide the inspiration that a completely assembled piece of machinery or craftsmanship does.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I did say that it was more complex. These are 12 year old figures, The quote covers three things: "The company claimed it achieved higher levels of output by using a young, well-motivated workforce, Nissan's lean Japanese manufacturing model and the established practice of continuous improvement, or 'kaizen'."

In addition, "the company succeeded in slightly reducing its total workforce while..... Output increased from 271,157 in 1999 to 327,701 in 2000. "

Nissan and the automotive industry in general is ( now) a beacon of investment excellence.

yes

[dhw]

We have a vastly reduced industrial sector and attendant reduction in apprenticeships. without a trade or a production-based environment, what incentive is there for Britons to slog their guts out. A fully stacked shelf will never provide the inspiration that a completely assembled piece of machinery or craftsmanship does.

Vastly reduced from when? How many countries have a higher manufacturing output than the UK?
You should look at the manufacturing statistics, over the last 30 years what has happened is low technology industries have shrunk (this is where the myth of manufacturing industries have been destroyed) and hi tech industries and grown significantly must notable life science related industries. What also has changed is jobs previous coming under apprenticeship schemes are now allocated to new Engineering graduates. Apprenticeships have largely disappeared but have remained in scandinavian countries and particularly Germany, though those schemes are very different to the manner of the ones used in the UK.

[Wolford6]

Vastly reduced from when? How many countries have a higher manufacturing output than the UK?
You should look at the manufacturing statistics, over the last 30 years what has happened is low technology industries have shrunk (this is where the myth of manufacturing industries have been destroyed) and hi tech industries and grown significantly must notable life science related industries. What also has changed is jobs previous coming under apprenticeship schemes are now allocated to new Engineering graduates. Apprenticeships have largely disappeared but have remained in scandinavian countries and particularly Germany, though those schemes are very different to the manner of the ones used in the UK.

Are you honestly stating that there are now as many engineering graduates as there used to be engineering apprentices?

I know well over a hundred apprentice-trained engineers (of varying specialisms but excluding the construction industry) and about twenty graduate engineers (excluding civil engineers).

[dhw]

Are you honestly stating that there are now as many engineering graduates as there used to be engineering apprentices?

I know well over a hundred apprentice-trained engineers (of varying specialisms but excluding the construction industry) and about twenty graduate engineers (excluding civil engineers).

No that is not what I was stating.

Maybe you could answer the questions I posed though, because I assume you have evidence to backup your initial points
Vastly reduced from when? How many countries have a higher manufacturing output than the UK?

Edited by dhw, 20 August 2012 - 01:19 PM.