212 replies to this topic

[Marauder]

let's face it there are people who don't want it to work
does nobody play sport in summer then?

Lets face it, I was involved for seven years with summer rugby league and saw the problems that many of the clubs in the NWC, NCL & Age-group rugby developing within my club and that was with a far greater amount of players at our disposal, if anything has surprised me is how quickly the problems have shown themselves, I did expect it to be between 3 and 5 years.

[del capo]

http://en.wikipedia...._sports_leagues

Thanks for that Taxi Egg.

If I'm reading the figures correctly , attendances at professional games (SL and Championship ) matches have virtually doubled from 1.24 million in 1998 to over 2.4 million for 2011 ?

[TaxiEgg]

Super league yes especially at new facilities but i,m not sure that the growth is there below SL , I.m struggling to find actual attendance records to either agree or disagree with the above stats.

Peter would you say that the apparrent growth is mirrored in the amatuer game , one stat that no one can dispute is that in the Nw we have had an unprecedented number of youth teams folding in this summer season.

[del capo]

I just took the figures from that report of July 1999 and your wikilink. I too couldnt find anything more detailed , but I bet it's out there somewhere.

It seems to suggest that attendances have significantly improved with the summer, but lots more needs to be factored into that before conclusions can be drawn.

I agree there has been no significant corresponding increase in participation.I take your point about teams folding , but all I get is anecdotal info rather than hard lists to support the debate on if / why things are going wrong and what can be done about it.

The one critical area that needs an answer is the 14 - 18 age groups.


There seems to be a tension between the Performance ( talent pathway ) and Participation ( grassroots ) departments at the RFL that needs to be eased in favour of a single unified approach.

The current Scholarship / Academy set ups are taking out anything up to 25% of available players , when most other sports take out less than 5% . . 5 of the SL clubs provide 80% of the incoming professional players. Hence (cost apart ) the present reviews that are clearly upsetting some in the pro game with perhaps vested interests.

A forest is only sustainable if you plant three trees for everyone you uproot - and you then still have to look after that forest.....so why should those pro-clubs who plant next to nothing be entitled to uproot anything ?

And when Leigh Miners , Folly Lane , St Patricks for instance are folding higher end age group teams because of the constant raiding from above and insistence on fixture formats that cut across grassroots games, it's become serious and probably time for radical , urgent re-appraisal .

But that doesn't mean summer rugby is wrong............

[TaxiEgg]

No your quite right Peter it does not , but what it does highlight is that the policy makers have got it wrong .
Reading through League Express you get a feel that not only the Amatuer game administrators are scratching their heads at the the constant changing of direction.
Sport England have figures show a drop in participation of over 44,000 .

And looking at the crowds at the pro games this week ends hardly back up the doubling of attendances i know you cant just draw on one week end but as an example.

Super League 6 Games ave crowd 7,660
Championship 5 Games ave crowd 1,058
Championship 1 4 Games ave Crowd 524

And addressing your last point re Miners ,Folly ,Pats eg the Community Board were warned against the approval of the playing calender including Scholarship / sevice area games within the community game but they chose to ignore the concerns .

So in my humble opinion Peter Summer rugby is wrong if you ignore the obvious.

[tim2]

The scholarship / performance effect on the community game continues to be a problem. I know there will be changes but for me the proposed changes do not go far enough in protecting the community game.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Thanks for that Taxi Egg.

If I'm reading the figures correctly , attendances at professional games (SL and Championship ) matches have virtually doubled from 1.24 million in 1998 to over 2.4 million for 2011 ?

From memory the figures have been gone over a few times (usually on promotion and relegation Vs. Licenses threads). SL has increased attendances and the championships have on average stayed about the same (some clubs have a big change not shown by an average). Lot's of factors of course not just a move to summer, new grounds, better PR, events, etc.

Edited by Bedford Roughyed, 22 August 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[Gonch]

I don't believe its working in Cumbria, one of our oldest open age teams Broughton Red Rose folded last night

[gillmeister]

I don't believe its working in Cumbria, one of our oldest open age teams Broughton Red Rose folded last night

In the short term it will only get worse as the youth league in Cumbria is poor with not enough teams and there in lies the problem. The supply line is drying up. Glasson, Seaton, Kells, Ellbra, Wath Brow, Flimby and probably Maryport are in a good position going forward but who else is?

I think it also shows you should only run youth teams for players that will be loyal to your club rather focusing on success it wasnt long ago Broughton had an under 16s team in the national cup final - Lets hope they can regroup and come back stronger!

[bowes]

In the short term it will only get worse as the youth league in Cumbria is poor with not enough teams and there in lies the problem. The supply line is drying up. Glasson, Seaton, Kells, Ellbra, Wath Brow, Flimby and probably Maryport are in a good position going forward but who else is?

I think it also shows you should only run youth teams for players that will be loyal to your club rather focusing on success it wasnt long ago Broughton had an under 16s team in the national cup final - Lets hope they can regroup and come back stronger!

No U18s sides in Cumbria at all as far as I can tell.

[gillmeister]

_{No there isnt Bowes and at one point there used to be a thriving under 18s league. There hasnt been one for three or four years , nothing to do with the season that we play in and everything to do with society and the lack of commitment from young players towards rugby league. There are a number of young lads who go straight into open age teams but there are also lads lost as they find open age rugby to hard and there is nowhere to play except ......... Under 18s rugby union!}

[yanto]

I don't believe its working in Cumbria, one of our oldest open age teams Broughton Red Rose folded last night

Just been told that by the chairman of the club on Facebook.
Red Rose produced many a player for the pro ranks over the years.
I learned the game at the club and had two stints coaching, its a shame they are struggling for numbers.
Bryan said they are going to take a look at next year but things are not looking good down at Papcastle Road.

Ellbra went through the same a couple of years back..from one of the top teams in the country to oblivion....hopefully like Ellbra, Red Rose can come back.

Edited by yanto, 23 August 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[yanto]

In the short term it will only get worse as the youth league in Cumbria is poor with not enough teams and there in lies the problem. The supply line is drying up. Glasson, Seaton, Kells, Ellbra, Wath Brow, Flimby and probably Maryport are in a good position going forward but who else is?

I think it also shows you should only run youth teams for players that will be loyal to your club rather focusing on success it wasnt long ago Broughton had an under 16s team in the national cup final - Lets hope they can regroup and come back stronger!

And four those clubs come from a three mile radius of each other !! How come such a small town as Maryport can keep on producing players yet Whitehaven and Workington where the pro clubs are based cant ??

Gillie that under 16 team that reached the national cup final should now be Red Rose first selection..what happened to those kids?? I only hear of Mcavoy who is now at Bradford...the rest ...lost to the game ???

[bowes]

_{No there isnt Bowes and at one point there used to be a thriving under 18s league. There hasnt been one for three or four years , nothing to do with the season that we play in and everything to do with society and the lack of commitment from young players towards rugby league. There are a number of young lads who go straight into open age teams but there are also lads lost as they find open age rugby to hard and there is nowhere to play except ......... Under 18s rugby union!}

Yeah seem to remember a 4 team league a few years ago that collapsed when Kells and Hensingham joined the National Youth League, there then was a joint West Cumbria team then nothing.

We have an Under 18s league in the midlands but to be honest it's pretty rubbish only 5 teams and half the games were called off. Under 16s is a strong 8 team league though. Surprised there's only 4 teams in West Cumbria U16s though.

Edited by bowes, 23 August 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Gonch]

Tommo
A lot of them still playing for other clubs as a few players came from other clubs to be part of the team, Liam went Bradford as did jay Rossi, older mcavoy away at uni brr
didnt get many players out of it

Soss

[gillmeister]

Tommo
A lot of them still playing for other clubs as a few players came from other clubs to be part of the team, Liam went Bradford as did jay Rossi, older mcavoy away at uni brr
didnt get many players out of it

Soss

I reckon theres about half a dozen playing for other clubs but none at Broughton and thats the problem! We done it at Seaton we had youth teams full of players that werent from Seaton, id say theres four at ellbra same at flimby three at Distington a couple at Clifton and maybe two at Seaton to many times the emphasis is on kids teams that win rather than asking the question will they play for my club when they become open age players!!

I only hope that they do re-group, there history and pedigree cant be lost to the game but it goes alot deeper than the playing season

[gillmeister]

Yeah seem to remember a 4 team league a few years ago that collapsed when Kells and Hensingham joined the National Youth League, there then was a joint West Cumbria team then nothing.

We have an Under 18s league in the midlands but to be honest it's pretty rubbish only 5 teams and half the games were called off. Under 16s is a strong 8 team league though. Surprised there's only 4 teams in West Cumbria U16s though.

Theres only 4 teams because one team swallowed up loads of kids from other Towns and villages to form a "super team" which might not benefit that club in the long run and done alot of damage to the health of the game. The under 18s was affected by the formation of the West Cumbria 18s team which was supposed to be for players of all abilities but in reality it was designed to get the elite young players in one place

[bowes]

Theres only 4 teams because one team swallowed up loads of kids from other Towns and villages to form a "super team" which might not benefit that club in the long run and done alot of damage to the health of the game. The under 18s was affected by the formation of the West Cumbria 18s team which was supposed to be for players of all abilities but in reality it was designed to get the elite young players in one place

I wonder if the new Under 19s Academy will have a Cumbria team in it?

[TaxiEgg]

Shame that this has happened Cumbria has always been a hot bed for RL, worrying signs for the game with whats happened in the NW this year problem sems to be spreading but look on the bright side Super League attendances or on the up

[Marauder]

Shame that this has happened Cumbria has always been a hot bed for RL, worrying signs for the game with whats happened in the NW this year problem sems to be spreading but look on the bright side Super League attendances or on the up

Is the system of having elite clubs failing the game and are we/will we be losing the late developers because of the elite system leaving club sides so short of players?