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Tour de France cyclists


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#1 gingerjon

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:37 AM

So, just to confirm, there are two kinds: those who have been caught and those who haven't.

The doping rules are ridiculous.
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#2 Mister C

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:41 AM

in Lances era yes. I think if they were to give his titles to riders who have not subsequently served drugs bans or been implicated in doping they'd need to go a long way down the GC

I have much more confidence they are clean now but there are probably still ways and means

#3 PC

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:55 AM

There was no way Armstrong could win the USADA case. they had no evidence and were just basing the whole thing on rumour and innuendo. it was pretty much a done deal that they would find him guilty. The simple fact is that he has never failed a drugs test, and there is no hard evidence to show that he has ever taken drugs.

#4 JohnM

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:12 AM

Read Lance Armstrong statement here: http://lancearmstron...-august-23-2012

and a Guardian piece here: http://www.guardian....armstrong-drugs

and what do you make of this? World Anti-Doping Agency president John Fahey says Lance Armstrong's decision not to contest doping charges against him is an admission the allegations "have substance to them".

Edited by JohnM, 24 August 2012 - 08:16 AM.


#5 Mister C

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:33 AM

There was no way Armstrong could win the USADA case. they had no evidence and were just basing the whole thing on rumour and innuendo. it was pretty much a done deal that they would find him guilty. The simple fact is that he has never failed a drugs test, and there is no hard evidence to show that he has ever taken drugs.


there is evidence to suggest that he has failed tests. he just found a way to suppress it getting in to the public domain

this is a whole can of worms as it basically implicates the sports governing body, the UCI, who even as recently as a couple of weeks ago were publicly siding with Armstrong

http://www.cyclingne...i-ashenden-says

#6 JohnM

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:45 AM

there is evidence to suggest that he has failed tests.


what evidence?

#7 Mister C

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:52 AM

what evidence?


in the link

in mym opinion the amount of circumstancial evidence is too great to ignore. This includes Dr Michael Ashenden and the guys from Science in Sport.

The wattages Armstrong was outputting are way above and beyond what is thought as humanly possible and way above what Wiggins et al produced this year

Cycling must be one of the few sports where performance has dropped as time has gone on

#8 PC

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:57 AM

The witnesses referred to in the link are former dopers who have been promised leniency by USADA if the testify against Armstrong. hardly the most credible of witnesses.

#9 Wolford6

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:04 AM

I am not a fan of Lance Armstrong. The US Dollar bought him domestiques who were potential and actual tour winners in their own rights.

However: -
- He never came across as a particularly nice person. This may have an influence in how many former team-mates are prepared to testify that he took drugs.
- My next door neighbour has had leukaemia and is likely to have to take medication ("drugs") for the rest of his life. Lance Armstrong won most of his big races after he had recovered from cancer, and presumably has a similar requirement. This may or may not have been a factor in any drug-test readings that he subsequently recorded.
- The current drug-testing regime is nowhere near perfect. Alexandro Valverde and Alexander Vinokourov were banned without being caught with drugs in their system and Alberto Contador was banned for being caught in a race in France with a miniscule amount of clenbuterol in his system ... if he had been racing in another country, he would probably not have been banned.

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#10 Wolford6

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:05 AM

i
Cycling must be one of the few sports where performance has dropped as time has gone on


Agreed, but women's athletics is in a similar boat and doesn't get the same bad press.

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#11 gingerjon

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:20 AM

I have much more confidence they are clean now but there are probably still ways and means


I seriously doubt you can be a top level athlete in any sport without taking a whole bunch of drugs and supplements to keep you there. For something as demanding as the Tour de France it is an obvious impossibility.

The line between legal and illegal is arbitrary and pointless.
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#12 Mister C

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:21 AM

http://www.sportssci...-estimates.html

I reckon anyone with an interest in cycling should have a scout around this website. This is just one article and doesn't really state anything conclusive but its very interesting all the same and there are a lot of articles that infer doping was rife

The interesting thing will be where the UCI go from here, especially Pat McQuaid who said cycling didn't have a problem

#13 Mister C

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:23 AM

I seriously doubt you can be a top level athlete in any sport without taking a whole bunch of drugs and supplements to keep you there. For something as demanding as the Tour de France it is an obvious impossibility.

The line between legal and illegal is arbitrary and pointless.


Correct. Having a painkilling injection etc to allow you to carry on in an impact sport when ordinarily you could not

#14 gingerjon

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:27 AM

I also like this blog post about it http://thevoluptuous...ward-rolls.html
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#15 hindle xiii

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:31 AM

Let them all cheat and take whatever they like, get the Tour de France over with in a week instead of three.

If you use "should of", "would of" or "could of", you are a moron.

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#16 Severus

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

The wattages Armstrong was outputting are way above and beyond what is thought as humanly possible and way above what Wiggins et al produced this year

Cycling must be one of the few sports where performance has dropped as time has gone on

Exactly. Check out the youtube videos of Armstrong climbing the Hautacam or Apes d'Huez and compare them to this years tour. Either the guy was exceptional or he was doping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DmNMGEuI0

I have literally just finished reading his second book, Every Second Counts which chronicles his Tour wins in 2001 to 2003 and talks a lot about the doping allegations and of course Armstrong strongly denies any wrong doing. His decision to not contest this latest accusation to me suggests that he is guilty of doping and that giving up the fight may be the least damaging option. According to rumours George Hincapie is one of the 10 who has given evidence against him.
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#17 Steve May

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:39 AM

Agreed, but women's athletics is in a similar boat and doesn't get the same bad press.


Not many people think that the women's athletics records set by East Germans are valid. They just don't seem to want to talk about it.

Some East German athletes have formally asked for their own World records to be expunged as part of a lawsuit they are pursuing for compensation. Many of them have severe, long term illnesses.

The story of Heidi, now Andreas, Krieger is particularly sad.

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#18 Mister C

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

Exactly. Check out the youtube videos of Armstrong climbing the Hautacam or Apes d'Huez and compare them to this years tour. Either the guy was exceptional or he was doping.

I have literally just finished reading his second book, Every Second Counts which chronicles his Tour wins in 2001 to 2003 and talks a lot about the doping allegations and of course Armstrong strongly denies any wrong doing. His decision to not contest this latest accusation to me suggests that he is guilty of doping and that giving up the fight may be the least damaging option. According to rumours George Hincapie is one of the 10 who has given evidence against him.


he was a hero to me. i read his books and watched you tube again and again. The off road corner, the look on alpe d'huez, the duel with pantani.

one of the most trusted men in cycling is Jonathan Vaughters and i'm led to believe he's one of the 10 too

#19 JohnM

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:48 AM

Something for everyone in this, though the RFL have yet to be implicated.

Just because he is not continuing with court action does not mean he is guilty. Dangerous ground I reckon for that to be assumed.

However, a guy I used to work with, a competitive cyclist for many years, reckoned Armstrong could not achieve the level of performance that he did without say blood doping or EPO or such like.

One thing is sure...there is a shortage of verifiable facts but lost of scores being settled, personal agendas being worked out etc. This ain't over yet!

#20 gingerjon

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:49 AM

Not many people think that the women's athletics records set by East Germans are valid. They just don't seem to want to talk about it.


The US women's team broke the 4x100 East German record this Olympics.

I think people are still a bit too stunned to talk through the implications of that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ympics/19219381
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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