27 replies to this topic

[ckn]

Anders Brevik judged sane and sentenced to 21 years.

Nope. I just don't get it. People who take lives in this manner just cannot be sane. Surely it's a mental issue that makes them act in this way.

I'm not advocating any innocence or that he should be let out but that he should be locked away in a secure mental institution and subjected to appropriate mental health treatment. Especially if he'll be set free within the next 21 years.

[Futtocks]

Anders Brevik judged sane and sentenced to 21 years.

Nope. I just don't get it. People who take lives in this manner just cannot be sane. Surely it's a mental issue that makes them act in this way.

I'm not advocating any innocence or that he should be let out but that he should be locked away in a secure mental institution and subjected to appropriate mental health treatment. Especially if he'll be set free within the next 21 years.

I think I remember reading that, while 21 years is the maximum sentence allowable under Norwegian law, it can be extended in special circumstances.

[Saint Billinge]

It is a debatable question. How many murders do you consider before it's classed as insanity? The past has seen some murderers detained in a mental institution while others are imprisoned. It will certainly be interesting seeing what others think.

[Saint Billinge]

I think I remember reading that, while 21 years is the maximum sentence allowable under Norwegian law, it can be extended in special circumstances.

This was mentioned on television this morning.

[ckn]

It is a debatable question. How many murders do you consider before it's classed as insanity? The past has seen some murderers detained in a mental institution while others are imprisoned. It will certainly be interesting seeing what others think.

One.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Anders Brevik judged sane and sentenced to 21 years.

Nope. I just don't get it. People who take lives in this manner just cannot be sane. Surely it's a mental issue that makes them act in this way.

I'm not advocating any innocence or that he should be let out but that he should be locked away in a secure mental institution and subjected to appropriate mental health treatment. Especially if he'll be set free within the next 21 years.

the bottom line is that a very dangerous man is locked up

He took a rational decisoion to kill these people. What 'mental issue' could he suffer from? Schixophrenia? If this was thje case then he would have been driven to his act by delusions. Depression? People with depression tend to turn their anger on themselves. Bipolar disorder? Same as withj depression. Personality disorder-that's the favourite. There is a debate as to whether a personailty disorder(we all have them to an extent) is a mantal illness, and whether there is any treatment for it other than behaviioural techniques. The guy will be in prison for 21 years. I doubt whether he will be automatically relesed.

[Johnoco]

Whether there is a medical term for it or not, people who carry out acts like he did are not in their right minds.

[Northern Sol]

the bottom line is that a very dangerous man is locked up

He took a rational decisoion to kill these people. What 'mental issue' could he suffer from? Schixophrenia? If this was thje case then he would have been driven to his act by delusions. Depression? People with depression tend to turn their anger on themselves. Bipolar disorder? Same as withj depression. Personality disorder-that's the favourite. There is a debate as to whether a personailty disorder(we all have them to an extent) is a mantal illness, and whether there is any treatment for it other than behaviioural techniques. The guy will be in prison for 21 years. I doubt whether he will be automatically relesed.

Psychopathy?

[ckn]

the bottom line is that a very dangerous man is locked up

He took a rational decisoion to kill these people. What 'mental issue' could he suffer from? Schixophrenia? If this was thje case then he would have been driven to his act by delusions. Depression? People with depression tend to turn their anger on themselves. Bipolar disorder? Same as withj depression. Personality disorder-that's the favourite. There is a debate as to whether a personailty disorder(we all have them to an extent) is a mantal illness, and whether there is any treatment for it other than behaviioural techniques. The guy will be in prison for 21 years. I doubt whether he will be automatically relesed.

In my very rank amateur view, he's a psychopath with self-reinforcing delusional tendencies.

[Wolford6]

It's their country, their laws.

[Steve May]

Anders Brevik judged sane and sentenced to 21 years.

Nope. I just don't get it. People who take lives in this manner just cannot be sane. Surely it's a mental issue that makes them act in this way.

I'm not advocating any innocence or that he should be let out but that he should be locked away in a secure mental institution and subjected to appropriate mental health treatment. Especially if he'll be set free within the next 21 years.

Norway seems to have it sorted on this. Very impressed with their reponse to the whole thing. I'm inclined to trust the judgement of their experts.


But my uninformed, amateur opinion on whether he's sane? It's tricky.

When you say "in this manner" what manner do you mean? As far as I can see he judged that his country was under attack and took steps to defend it. I think he was wrong to do so, very wrong, but I'm not sure he's insane.

I understand from your previous writings that you're ex-military. You've presumably spent a large proportion of your adult life either training to kill people or assisting other people to kill people. Are you insane? I don't think so.

What criteria for killing people makes you insane? If you use a bayonet are you sane when you run it through another man's guts? If you use a drone piloted from thousands of miles away are you insane when you press a button on your keyboard and destroy a building and the people in it?

Had he done exactly the same thing on the orders of the Norwegian government then he'd probably be the recipient of an award for gallantry and bravery.


I don't think Brievik was insane. I just think he was wrong. Deeply wrong. I hope he serves a very long prison sentence indeed.

[Martyn Sadler]

Anders Brevik judged sane and sentenced to 21 years.

Nope. I just don't get it. People who take lives in this manner just cannot be sane. Surely it's a mental issue that makes them act in this way.

I'm not advocating any innocence or that he should be let out but that he should be locked away in a secure mental institution and subjected to appropriate mental health treatment. Especially if he'll be set free within the next 21 years.

Insanity, if it means anything, surely means irrational, if not deranged, behaviour that, in most cases, is a threat to the rest of us, to the extent that the insane person can't be allowed freedom.

But some people can be a threat to us when they are totally rational.

The Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland may or may not be responsible for more deaths than Breivik. But nobody would even suggest that he was insane. Nor would most people suggest that he is still a threat to the rest of us.

But as Steve points out, Breivik thought he was fighting an enemy, as did McGuinness when he headed the IRA. They may both have been wrong. But the fortunate thing is that Breivik was seemingly acting alone, and could therefore easily be caught and dealt with in a way that McGuinness couldn't be.

Breivik's logic may have been deeply perverted, but he clearly wasn't deranged. But for killing so many innocent people he deserves everything he gets.

[Johnoco]

You can't compare people in an army or military unit killing people in a war or battle to a lone physcopath who guns down anyone in his path simply for being there.

There's a huge difference.

[Martyn Sadler]

You can't compare people in an army or military unit killing people in a war or battle to a lone physcopath who guns down anyone in his path simply for being there.

There's a huge difference.

Of course there is.

The killers in Dunblane, Hungerford and, more recently Oregon, were lone pyschopaths who were clearly insane by almost any criteria.

But Breivik appears to have made a calculated decision about which groups he was going to kill and why, which makes it a deliberate act, rather than a psychotic one.

[Derwent]

He had a belief which most of us would rationalise as a mistaken one, but he held that belief all the same. But plenty of people hold what is on the face of it a very irrational belief in the form of religion and "god". Do we class them as having some kind of mental instability ?

Why must he be mad to do what he did ? If he'd walked into a bar as a suicide bomber and killed dozens we'd be calling him a terrorist - why is what he did any different ?

His victims were targeted because of what they represented, this was not a random act, therefore I think it was a an act of terrorism. You can argue all day about what makes a terrorist do what they do but I don't think it boils down to mental illness in the convential sense.

[Johnoco]

Of course there is.

The killers in Dunblane, Hungerford and, more recently Oregon, were lone pyschopaths who were clearly insane by almost any criteria.

But Breivik appears to have made a calculated decision about which groups he was going to kill and why, which makes it a deliberate act, rather than a psychotic one.

I'd agree with you.

[Johnoco]

You can argue all day about what makes a terrorist do what they do but I don't think it boils down to mental illness in the convential sense.

Me neither. It might not be 'mental illness A' but by any definition they are not the actions of a rational person.

[Northern Sol]

Insanity, if it means anything, surely means irrational, if not deranged, behaviour that, in most cases, is a threat to the rest of us, to the extent that the insane person can't be allowed freedom.

But some people can be a threat to us when they are totally rational.

The Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland may or may not be responsible for more deaths than Breivik. But nobody would even suggest that he was insane. Nor would most people suggest that he is still a threat to the rest of us.

But as Steve points out, Breivik thought he was fighting an enemy, as did McGuinness when he headed the IRA. They may both have been wrong. But the fortunate thing is that Breivik was seemingly acting alone, and could therefore easily be caught and dealt with in a way that McGuinness couldn't be.

Breivik's logic may have been deeply perverted, but he clearly wasn't deranged. But for killing so many innocent people he deserves everything he gets.

Probably the best post I've seen you make. Good analysis.

[Severus]

I think Martyn has it right.

Edited by Severus, 24 August 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[WearyRhino]

I agree with MS and NS - which is worrying!