173 replies to this topic

[Sam Armstrong]

WTF is MOU???

In essence it is a non-legally binding extension of the unwritten agreement that was already in place between the Leagues and the RFL to work together as Partners to manage the move from a Winter to a Summer oriented season (once agreed by the League's Clubs) as detailed below ...

Or, if you prefer to believe the doom-mongering, the planet is flat, head in the sand, BARLA Cheerleaders on here it is more akin to this ...

Edited by Sam Armstrong, 05 September 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[LordCharles]

In essence it is a non-legally binding extension of the unwritten agreement that was already in place between the Leagues and the RFL to work together as Partners to manage the move from a Winter to a Summer oriented season (once agreed by the League's Clubs) as detailed below ...

Or, if you prefer to believe the doom-mongering, the planet is flat, head in the sand, BARLA Cheerleaders on here it is more akin to this ...

To be clear.

The clubs voted for a switch to a March - November season, nothing else.

The MOU was never mentioned to the clubs by the NWC 13's - 15's Management Group or the RFL prior too, during, or for some considerable time after the AGM at which the vote to move to a March - November season was held.

To substantiate this, below is correspondance that was sent on the same day as the AGM was held that clearly shows the League's Management Group could have only had the MOU at some point during that day at the very earliest, if at all prior to the meeting.

Matt Birkett wrote :

When we met last week we discussed the draft League Licence.

After working through each item on the form I took away your comments and fed these into colleagues who have been finalising the document.

One of your main concerns was the term “licence”, as you will see this has now been changed and now reads “Memorandum of Understanding” (MOU).

The two other comments you made were as follows:-

• Add the word “jointly” in Point 1 i.e. jointly agreed calendar. This hasn’t been added because it was felt that “agreed” meant the same thing, however if this concerns you I’m sure an additional word would be fine to add

• You asked does the word “rules” need to be in Point 2. The answer to this is yes, because not all the documents are policies e.g. Anti-Doping Rules, Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Rules.

I realise that your members will be voting tonight, therefore the decision affects this MOU, however I did promise to get it across when I received the final version.

If the vote does result in the league moving to a summer based competition (and your happy with the MOU), then I’d like to generate some PR for the league for the signing of this MOU – David Gent would sign this on behalf of the RFL. Nick Boothroyd would be willing to assist with this.

Also the following link is to the minutes of the June 2011 AGM meeting and at no point within them is there a mention of any MOU, its contents, or a vote for or against it.

http://www.nwc13-15a...1-meetings.html

So you decide if the Member Clubs were aware of it and voted for it?

Edited by LordCharles, 05 September 2012 - 07:25 AM.

[Sam Armstrong]

Oh sorry, I forgot to add that ...... apart from Lord Charles (or him under the guise of any of his other dozen or so nom de plumes and, I think, about one or two others who will jump on any anti-RFL bandwagon passing if they haven't got their own way on something else), we have not had a single one of our Clubs or teams express any concern whatsoever (whether formally or informally) about us entering into it as they are able to see it for what it is .... something we were already doing and would have continued to do, with or without, the document!!!

Of course this has been told to him on numerous occasions on numerous threads on numerous Forums to no avail.

Edited by Sam Armstrong, 05 September 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[LordCharles]

Sam Armstrong » Fri May 04, 2012 7:43 am

willows4ever wrote : How was a MOU signed up without the benefit of deliberation of the implications? Accepting that the committee/management are "entrusted" with looking after the member clubs interests did the committee just jump in blind?

geordie wrote : Did the leagues member clubs get to discuss the effects of and then vote on the NWC 13-15s management committee decision as to whether to sign the "Memoranding of Understanding" or not?

Sam Armstrong » Fri May 04, 2012 7:43 am

The MOU was a fundamental part of our commitment to the move to Summer and was part and parcel of the discussions at the AGM when the vote to move was made.



Again............what is correct?

The minutes of the meeting and the transcript of an e-mail from an RFL employee, or your version of events Sam?

Edited by LordCharles, 05 September 2012 - 07:46 AM.

[Sam Armstrong]

Not going over this yet again!! The question was what was the MOU?

Edited by Sam Armstrong, 05 September 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[casyorkie]

Charlie should know he is on the community board and they tell the NCL what to do after recieving orders from the RFL (Don't forget they have signed the MOU)

I can understand why you are confused with all this as you have never been to a NCL meeting but its the deleagtes that decide what happens not RFL or community board.It does seem that the people who believe there is some big problem regarding NCL bben in the summer acutally dont have anything to do with NCL clubs

[sbull]

just as a matter of interest, what is the avarage age of the ncl committee?

[sbull]

I can understand why you are confused with all this as you have never been to a NCL meeting but its the deleagtes that decide what happens not RFL or community board.It does seem that the people who believe there is some big problem regarding NCL bben in the summer acutally dont have anything to do with NCL clubs

i belong to a NCL club, is their going to be a vote on a move back to winter?

if a member proposes a vote at another member seconds it would a vote take place are am i barking up the wrong tree?

would the RLF allow such a vote?

[Marauder]

Oh sorry, I forgot to add that ...... apart from Lord Charles (or him under the guise of any of his other dozen or so nom de plumes and, I think, about one or two others who will jump on any anti-RFL bandwagon passing if they haven't got their own way on something else), we have not had a single one of our Clubs or teams express any concern whatsoever (whether formally or informally) about us entering into it as they are able to see it for what it is .... something we were already doing and would have continued to do, with or without, the document!!!

Of course this has been told to him on numerous occasions on numerous threads on numerous Forums to no avail.

So apart from the points that Lord Charles has brought up, the main difference from what you had been working with under BARLA is the fact that the RFL can now change, alter, cancel etc without the clubs/leagues having a democratic say so.

[Marauder]

Not going over this yet again!! The question was what was the MOU?

Check mate

[Marauder]

i belong to a NCL club, is their going to be a vote on a move back to winter?

if a member proposes a vote at another member seconds it would a vote take place are am i barking up the wrong tree?

would the RLF allow such a vote?

Good point.

[del capo]

About the same as most club and regional league committees ( the youths apart perhaps ) at a guess !!

On a serious note volunteer succession planning ( sic ) is one of the biggest problems facing the amateur game.

Do you want another job.? Are you young enough ?

[gillmeister]

Check mate

So because Sam posting under his real name for all to see doesnt want to go over old ground with a guy who has had more forum names than hot dinners when he has argued the case over and over elsewhere then its check mate? Laughable, or is the aim to get another thread locked?

Edited by gillmeister, 05 September 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[del capo]

i belong to a NCL club, is their going to be a vote on a move back to winter?

if a member proposes a vote at another member seconds it would a vote take place are am i barking up the wrong tree?

would the RLF allow such a vote?

Nothing to do with RFL sbull.

If you are on a member club committee just ask your secretary. He will tell you how policy changes can be made.

Otherwise if you just want to find out how things work please go to the NCL website. There's actually a lot of good stuff on there.

Go to the downloads and then you need to look at the constitution

.The sort of vote you are asking about can be done at an SGM with 30% member support , spelling out the motion requested. Or by two members at an AGM , again with a specific motion to debate and if necessary vote upon.

Check out Appendix 13 of the operational rules as well

Hope that helps......

[Marauder]

So because Sam posting under his real name for all to see doesnt want to go over old ground with a guy who has had more forum names than hot dinners when he has argued the case over and over elsewhere then its check mate? Laughable, or is the aim to get another thread locked?

Well the evidence does suggest that Lord Chuck seems to have his D.T.G. correct

[Marauder]

Nothing to do with RFL sbull.

If you are on a member club committee just ask your secretary. He will tell you how policy changes can be made.

Otherwise if you just want to find out how things work please go to the NCL website. There's actually a lot of good stuff on there.

Go to the downloads and then you need to look at the constitution

.The sort of vote you are asking about can be done at an SGM with 30% member support , spelling out the motion requested. Or by two members at an AGM , again with a specific motion to debate and if necessary vote upon.

Check out Appendix 13 of the operational rules as well

Hope that helps......

Hasn't the route to change rules changed since the signing of the MOU & doesn't the NCL now play under the RFL operational rules since they signed?

Wouldn't proposed changes now have to go in front of the regulatory group to either agree or disagree any rule change before passing it back to the community board.

[del capo]

Hasn't the route to change rules changed since the signing of the MOU & doesn't the NCL now play under the RFL operational rules since they signed?

Wouldn't proposed changes now have to go in front of the regulatory group to either agree or disagree any rule change before passing it back to the community board.

Auntie doesn't need to be taught how to suck eggs Marauder.

Tier 3 rules are based on the NCL ones .It follows that the RFL Operational ones are in fact ours. Nothing in them causes the NCL the slightest of problems. I agree that any changes would need to go back to Regulatory but that group respect and thus far have always followed the NCL advice in the areas that concern NCL - Tier 3 activity....

That situation is unlikely to change in the current climate.

Does the NCL in fact have an MOU as such ? Or are the RFL just too happy to have us there ?

And as to the question in hand, the issue of which season to play in is entirely a matter for this League - that would never be a regulatory issue anyway as the RFL accepts a 4 seasons approach....

A question for you now Marauder - you obviously feel that the RFL are moving to control from above , but have you ever considered infiltration from below can well achieve what is needed at our levels ?

And if you are prepared to think even wider , how about ' we are all in this together ? ' and the solutions to most issues are achievable at the forum created for that purpose - the Community Board ?

[TaxiEgg]

Peter this is why most of us numpties are confused ,if the Cmmunity Board endorses along with the RFL a desire to provide where necessary the need to play Rugby league across four seasons, why does anyone need to agree to sign a piece of paper to play in a specific period ie March to November ?

[del capo]

Peter this is why most of us numpties are confused ,if the Cmmunity Board endorses along with the RFL a desire to provide where necessary the need to play Rugby league across four seasons, why does anyone need to agree to sign a piece of paper to play in a specific period ie March to November ?

Your no numpty Taxi Egg ....... Why not ask David Gent ?

For my part I suspect its maybe to show that overall governance of the game lies with the RFL . From that flows all sorts of opportunities , especially from a funding point of view ( both public and commercial ) . with the ' summer ' season being a particularly big selling point .

And as for those Leagues and Associations who have signed up I have yet to hear of any complaints of interference from above in the actual management of their affairs .

After all we both know that at these levels you govern with the consent of the bulk of your clubs or not at all.... something I feel the RFL are getting to understand much better now than in the bad old days.....

[Marauder]

Peter this is why most of us numpties are confused ,if the Cmmunity Board endorses along with the RFL a desire to provide where necessary the need to play Rugby league across four seasons, why does anyone need to agree to sign a piece of paper to play in a specific period ie March to November ?

I'm with you on this, it's OK saying the RFL don't stand on our toes (at the moment) but where does it leave you if they decide (& they will) to start and change your criteria.

I hope I'm wrong because the NCL should be our bench mark and evolution made it a cracking competition but with the RFL record in meddling, chopping and changing I''d have a second position recced ready to crash out of the MOU once they start to attack, (Be careful of stealth attacks - tribuo quod victum)