173 replies to this topic

[Marauder]

Just a pity Peter some of the NCL clubs are not affording the same to their members by dictatating to their coaches what playing season is the best for them without giving them the benefit of a democratic opinion .

I've got an Uncle who has relations (sounds daft but true) connected to one certain Hull club and the players are not to pleased with the switch (I reported this has the season started) and it is definately showing in their fall from grace this season.

Edited by Marauder, 08 September 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[bowes]

So I can happily divorce YOU but what about your brothers in arms and the three wise monkeys?

I think the efforts to persuade clubs came after most clubs voted for summer to keep everyone together. 9 out of 10 clubs who voted no agreed to a summer switch. Most agreed straight away to keep a higher standard of rugby league.

[Marauder]

I think the efforts to persuade clubs came after most clubs voted for summer to keep everyone together. 9 out of 10 clubs who voted no agreed to a summer switch. Most agreed straight away to keep a higher standard of rugby league.

Your head must be out of the sand by now mate!

This shift towards summer never happened over night and IMO when it came the responce caught the RFL by surprise and as you have already stated most of it has been farcical and the expansion areas are being let down with the exception of the Midlands who seem to have a few energetic workhorse's who are going down the correct route.

I agree that clubs stopped together to maintain the standard but this has not happened and clubs now feel threatened financially and stressed on who will be available to lace up their boots from one week to the next.

Edited by Marauder, 08 September 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[del capo]

I'm afraid its not a function of the NCL to interfere with how members come to exercise their votes Taxi Egg. You have to assume that the delegate is appropriately mandated.. After all , whose to say that those who voted against summer consulted within their clubs either?

I'm sure my ' brothers in arms ' can speak for themselves Marauder , but your three wise monkeys bit baffles me - Andy Harland is the only RFL ' mover and shaker ' who attends the NCL management meetings on a regular basis ......

[Marauder]

I think the efforts to persuade clubs came after most clubs voted for summer to keep everyone together. 9 out of 10 clubs who voted no agreed to a summer switch. Most agreed straight away to keep a higher standard of rugby league.

You keep quoting those 10 clubs that voted no then 9 changed their minds, thats now history and the goal posts are moving all the time and as Cutsyke Raider reported one Castleford based club who voted yes are know in sh it street because of the two main problems that are highlighted the most (finance and player availability) these are two major problems for any club whether they play in the summer or winter, but if you have just spent god knows how many years playing in the winter with no such problems like a few more clubs and then you hit both problems at once, what would you do?

[Marauder]

I'm afraid its not a function of the NCL to interfere with how members come to exercise their votes Taxi Egg. You have to assume that the delegate is appropriately mandated.. After all , whose to say that those who voted against summer consulted within their clubs either?

I'm sure my ' brothers in arms ' can speak for themselves Marauder , but your three wise monkeys bit baffles me - Andy Harland is the only RFL ' mover and shaker ' who attends the NCL management meetings on a regular basis ......

Must be why the fixtures got messed up this season then.

The power of persuasion by recommendation does it really work?

Edited by Marauder, 08 September 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[bowes]

Your head must be out of the sand by now mate!

This shift towards summer never happened over night and IMO when it came the responce caught the RFL by surprise and as you have already stated most of it has been farcical and the expansion areas are being let down with the exception of the Midlands who seem to have a few energetic workhorse's who are going down the correct route.

I agree that clubs stopped together to maintain the standard but this has not happened and clubs now feel threatened financially and stressed on who will be available to lace up their boots from one week to the next.

Clubs want to play summer (at least outside of Yorkshire) but the RFL's management hasn't been great. The North West league is for the most part very good but there's a strong argument to take the bulk of the reserve teams out into their own divisions (Thatto Heath and the 2 Leigh sides are managing fine) or else return to the old rules that seemed to work better.

Outside of Yorkshire there is no interest at all in the winter game bar a badly thrown together NWCL division that will be as farcical as the Yorkshire Men's League and clubs will end up split between summer and the Pennine League.

The vote went for summer because that's what clubs wanted (after the incentives switched the ones sitting on the fence to supporting summer) but the opposition was pretty much exclusively from Yorkshire (bar Egremont's concerns over sharing with cricket and possibly Ince Rose Bridge voted no).

The north east is going well as well as the midlands and some parts of the south. But realistically RU players having a kick around in summer aren't the priority of the sport so other clubs need prioritising. The RFL kept too much of the RLC though rather than too little. Would rather they prioritised separate leagues having a decent season length over an invitational tournament.

[Marauder]

Clubs want to play summer (at least outside of Yorkshire) but the RFL's management hasn't been great. The North West league is for the most part very good but there's a strong argument to take the bulk of the reserve teams out into their own divisions (Thatto Heath and the 2 Leigh sides are managing fine) or else return to the old rules that seemed to work better.

Outside of Yorkshire there is no interest at all in the winter game bar a badly thrown together NWCL division that will be as farcical as the Yorkshire Men's League and clubs will end up split between summer and the Pennine League.

The vote went for summer because that's what clubs wanted (after the incentives switched the ones sitting on the fence to supporting summer) but the opposition was pretty much exclusively from Yorkshire (bar Egremont's concerns over sharing with cricket and possibly Ince Rose Bridge voted no).

The north east is going well as well as the midlands and some parts of the south. But realistically RU players having a kick around in summer aren't the priority of the sport so other clubs need prioritising. The RFL kept too much of the RLC though rather than too little. Would rather they prioritised separate leagues having a decent season length over an invitational tournament.

So you would have a cull in the South to concentrate on the better clubs.

[bowes]

So you would have a cull in the South to concentrate on the better clubs.

No. But I wouldn't invest effort into starting up clubs that play 10 games in the RU off season and run no juniors as used to happen in the RLC. If the clubs are there then they should still be able to play.

[bowes]

To say the truth the RLC largely saw London and South Wales as the pinnacles of their development and the midlands and north east as backwaters. Well this year only 4 London clubs finished the season in a structured league (plus one reserve) and the South Wales league collapsed. The North East have successfully run 2 divisions and the midlands ran 3 small ones plus a merit league. I'd like to see this consolidated into 2 big divisions next year (west and east? Or premier and division 1?) But this would depend on there being a higher division for Leicester and Northampton to step up to. This should be a done deal by now but the fact that the amateur games in London and South Wales aren't what they should be makes a Conference South harder to arrange.

[Marauder]

No. But I wouldn't invest effort into starting up clubs that play 10 games in the RU off season and run no juniors as used to happen in the RLC. If the clubs are there then they should still be able to play.

But thats how Coventry started

[bowes]

But thats how Coventry started

Well they started from the university. But the club would have folded by now if they'd stuck to the RU model. All the development effort Broncos focused on West London and there's just an Aussie social club (albeit a strong one in the field) there with no juniors at all.

[bowes]

The RLC winners from 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009 and 2011 will most likely not exist next year. The 2006 winners nearly faced the same fate.

[sbull]

Clubs want to play summer (at least outside of Yorkshire) but the RFL's management hasn't been great. The North West league is for the most part very good but there's a strong argument to take the bulk of the reserve teams out into their own divisions (Thatto Heath and the 2 Leigh sides are managing fine) or else return to the old rules that seemed to work better.

Outside of Yorkshire there is no interest at all in the winter game bar a badly thrown together NWCL division that will be as farcical as the Yorkshire Men's League and clubs will end up split between summer and the Pennine League.

The vote went for summer because that's what clubs wanted (after the incentives switched the ones sitting on the fence to supporting summer) but the opposition was pretty much exclusively from Yorkshire (bar Egremont's concerns over sharing with cricket and possibly Ince Rose Bridge voted no).

The north east is going well as well as the midlands and some parts of the south. But realistically RU players having a kick around in summer aren't the priority of the sport so other clubs need prioritising. The RFL kept too much of the RLC though rather than too little. Would rather they prioritised separate leagues having a decent season length over an invitational tournament.

Clubs still want to play summer??? have i mist the vote!!!

the north west league you refer to had 44% of games finishing on 24 0 the other week, great success story there then,

The vote went for summer because that's what clubs wanted

so the NCL committee had 30% of members approach them and suddenly ask can we have a vote for a move to summer? (can you please answer this qeastion)
ive been told that thats what the constitution says,

some poeple on here might be of the impression that the NCL committee pushed this through and strongly recommend to its members that they have done some resarch and we think you should vote summer, (is there any truth in this) ?

and the money that was being thrown about had nothing to do with the NCL strongly recomending its members vote for the switch !!!,

its also been stated that the NCL are committed to the switch for three years, is there any truth in this and was this mentioned prior to the vote?

and you feel pulling the NCL A teams out of competetive league and shoving them in a merit league is the way forward?

[bowes]

It's pretty must just the A teams that pull fixtures in NWML though. The winter league had 5 from 7 games called off in week 1. Somewhat more than 44% in fact it's 71%. Given that one team clubs are for the most part better than ever in summer the issue is exclusively reserve and to me it's clearly down to the liberalisation of registration rules. Either tighten them up or go to merit leagues as it's not fair on other clubs.

Why should they vote on summer every year. That's a pretty deranged statement as I don't remember annual votes to play winter.

[fatboystu]

to be quite frank its getting rather tedious listening to the same people bring up the same arguements time and time and time and time again

its like this in my eyes, you like winter rugby? then go play rugby for a winter season club/team.

you like summer rugby? then go play rugby for a club/team based in the summer!!

FFS its not rocket science! the RFL are (for the time being) committed to running a/ several summer based leagues, BARLA are (for the time being) committed to running or allowing their members to run winter based comps.

this constant bickering, c0ck measuring and "my dads bigger than your dad" style arguing gets nowhere, people who want to play summer, will. people who want to play winter, will. end of story!

[TaxiEgg]

Yes games did get called off in the traditional season mostly for ground conditions and also for lack of numbers.
How many games have been called off due to weather conditions in this summer season as oppossed to lack of numbers ?

The summer / winter debate will rumble on ,but wether the romantics like it or not the switch to summer rugby has not been the huge success we were brainwashed to believe, the youth game has suffered due to a fragmented playing calender which has been well documented benefitting the pro clubs.
So why have so many open age games been called off and there were another ten 24-0 walkovers again this week end in the NW, no outside influences to the open age game so come on you romantics lets have the benefit of your wisdom ?

[bowes]

8 out of 10 24-0s were conceded by A teams.

The other 2 were Chester and Bolton who probably conceded more in winter.

[sbull]

It's pretty must just the A teams that pull fixtures in NWML though. The winter league had 5 from 7 games called off in week 1. Somewhat more than 44% in fact it's 71%. Given that one team clubs are for the most part better than ever in summer the issue is exclusively reserve and to me it's clearly down to the liberalisation of registration rules. Either tighten them up or go to merit leagues as it's not fair on other clubs.

Why should they vote on summer every year. That's a pretty deranged statement as I don't remember annual votes to play winter.

i thougth the idea to go summer was to improve standerds, if the NCL sides have no reliable A teams to fall back on who are playing at a high standard how are they expected to improve standards?


im not saying have an annual vote, i think their is enough concern with the drop in player and spectator participation to open the debate and ask the members what they think,

ive notice you havnt answered a nr of my questions which of course is your choice but your silence is deafining, i will post them again so you know which ones i mean,

some poeple on here might be of the impression that the NCL committee pushed this through and strongly recommend to its members that they have done some resarch and we think you should vote summer, (is there any truth in this) ?

and the money that was being thrown about had nothing to do with the NCL strongly recomending its members vote for the switch !!!,

its also been stated that the NCL are committed to the switch for three years, is there any truth in this and was this mentioned prior to the vote?

Edited by sbull, 10 September 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[sbull]

to be quite frank its getting rather tedious listening to the same people bring up the same arguements time and time and time and time again

its like this in my eyes, you like winter rugby? then go play rugby for a winter season club/team.

you like summer rugby? then go play rugby for a club/team based in the summer!!

FFS its not rocket science! the RFL are (for the time being) committed to running a/ several summer based leagues, BARLA are (for the time being) committed to running or allowing their members to run winter based comps.

this constant bickering, c0ck measuring and "my dads bigger than your dad" style arguing gets nowhere, people who want to play summer, will. people who want to play winter, will. end of story!

i know were your coming from some of the other threads on the forum i find tedious so i get over this problem by not entering the topic,

its not rocket science, dont enter this topic