173 replies to this topic

[bowes]

I was talking to one NCL coach who told me he had used 53 different players this year and hardly has been able to field the same or his strongest team .
For me that speaks volumes and answers most questions

Clubs have more players total but a higher turnover. That much is clear

[TaxiEgg]

And why do you think that is bowes ?

Oh and by the way mate ;

British Summer Time began Sunday, 25 March 2012, and ends Sunday, 28 October 2012.

So September is still in summer

[bowes]

And why do you think that is bowes ?

Oh and by the way mate ;

British Summer Time began Sunday, 25 March 2012, and ends Sunday, 28 October 2012.

So September is still in summer

More players want to play in the better weather but more players have things to do. It balances out overall but some clubs have managed better than others.

And you're joking if you think summer is 6 months. We have 4 seasons not 2. Any game called off in September is irrelevent to the summer/winter debate as both seasons happen then. It may be a case for a debate on the effects of letting players register for a summer and a winter club.

[Marauder]

The NCL trialled summer in 2009. The RFL may have suggested it but 2 bad summers and the NCL getting fed up of BARLA. With no money on the cards there was one vote between summer and winter but with large numbers of abstentions.

Again if summer were the cause why is the NWCL dead in the water and why are smaller clubs seeing an improvement? You've refused to answer these questions as they prove you wrong.

Last winter season 4 clubs failed to complete the season in the bottom division. All division 5 clubs have managed this year so far.

Which NCL teams played in 2009

[bowes]

In the end 12 did in 3 groups.

North West:
Thatto Heath
Leigh East
Widnes St Maries
Eccles and Salford

Pennine
Ovenden
Bradford Dudley Hill
Saddleworth Rangers
Rochdale Mayfield

West Yorkshire
Milford Marlins
Thornhill Trojans
Oulton Raiders
Eastmoor Dragons

After this Milford, East Leeds and Shaw Cross entered teams into the RLC in 2010 and Shaw Cross kept there's in 2011 as well. There was meant to be an East Yorkshire division but it never materialised.

[TaxiEgg]

September being in Winter was your argument not mine, moving on we need to have a full consultative survey which is not "led " based to find solutions as to why so many games have been called off.
Burying your head in the sand and saying everything is ok when it is clearly not is madness..
I said the start back for the Youth and junior game in September would be an acid test and that appears to be bearing fruit as yet more youth teams fold . The next acid test is the the Winter break from Nov to March for all sections and how many players drift away from the game then ,i have said it before and i will say it again this is a massive gamble for Rugby League and would hate to say " I told you so "

The future of the community game is at stake here and its strength as always been in the heartlands and when that starts to diminish someone somewhere needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

[bowes]

September was always a part of the winter season was my argument.

There are clearly issues but it's not a simple summer/winter debate. If you tore up player registration rules and scheduled lots of scholarship games in the winter you'd face the exact same problem. In fact we're already seeing games called off in BARLA leagues. The disruption to the game is the case and should settle over the next couple of years.

All I'll say is some clubs will return back to winter I'm sure and some others will decide summer is for them. The lack of interest in the NWCL shows that players there have no interest in winter and thus it's clear cut that's not the solution to the problems we're facing.

Also anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could have told you that allowing players to have a winter and summer club would results in large numbers of called off games from September to November and March to May. These months were part of the winter season so you have to be deluded to put problems there down to summer.

Edited by bowes, 12 September 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[Marauder]

Clubs have more players total but a higher turnover. That much is clear

Clubs don't have more players at all, the relaxed registration allows you to sign players on the day as long as the referee signs the form, this means when your short you can call on the local drunk on a friday night to play and then go and collect him on the match day.

[bowes]

Partly yes. But also more people may be inclined to give it a try.

But one issue is the RFL thought that mid winter and mid summer were the hardest times to get players, this is the case. But their solution was to allow off season players to fill in the gaps. The problem is some clubs did more than this and recruited a whole other team which was really stupid as they then had no players when winter started as their original players had left due to being forced out by dual registered players. Kippax and Cutsyke among others had this problem.

[Marauder]

Partly yes. But also more people may be inclined to give it a try.

But one issue is the RFL thought that mid winter and mid summer were the hardest times to get players, this is the case. But their solution was to allow off season players to fill in the gaps. The problem is some clubs did more than this and recruited a whole other team which was really stupid as they then had no players when winter started as their original players had left due to being forced out by dual registered players. Kippax and Cutsyke among others had this problem.

I told you what would happen at Kippax a long time ago and it came true didn't it, I also had my worries about Bramley for the same reason and this has proved to be a bigger problem than I envisaged.

[mmp]

I was talking to one NCL coach who told me he had used 53 different players this year and hardly has been able to field the same or his strongest team .
For me that speaks volumes and answers most questions

suggests participation is going up then. well done to him.

[bowes]

I told you what would happen at Kippax a long time ago and it came true didn't it, I also had my worries about Bramley for the same reason and this has proved to be a bigger problem than I envisaged.

I expected Bramley to have bigger problems but guess there's next year. Kippax I thought might be able to save themselves with with their winter players but that team collapsed.

[mmp]

Clubs don't have more players at all, the relaxed registration allows you to sign players on the day as long as the referee signs the form, this means when your short you can call on the local drunk on a friday night to play and then go and collect him on the match day.

that was a rule in winter too! and lets get back to the particpation point...its' a rule that allows more people to participate!

[Marauder]

that was a rule in winter too! and lets get back to the particpation point...its' a rule that allows more people to participate!

Signing a player on the day stopped when ID cards where introduced

Edited by Marauder, 12 September 2012 - 09:00 AM.

[Marauder]

I expected Bramley to have bigger problems but guess there's next year. Kippax I thought might be able to save themselves with with their winter players but that team collapsed.

The registration rules with BARLA protected clubs, the relaxing of the rules by the RFL have seen clubs signing players from other clubs which has then had the knock on affect of players who have had their noses pushed out either moving on or going and playing a different sport.

I'm sure Kippax will be back.

[mmp]

Signing a player on the day stopped when ID cards where introduced

you can sign people on on the day in the NWC - have been able to the whole time we've played in it and that's where these second teams are playing.

we'll get back to the basic point. certain clubs running 2nd teams havent enough players - and they didnt have enough in the winter season either. as Bowes has said and as I encountered in the previous NWC seasons - the same clubs failing summer games now failed winter fixtures and it isn't anything to do with the time of year - just the fact they haven't the numbers to start with!

[TaxiEgg]

suggests participation is going up then. well done to him.

On paper i suppose but a lot of the youth players who have had no games come into that equation to make numbers up to ensure games get played.
From a coaching perspective its a nightmare never having a settled side swapping and changing each week has an adverse effect and quality teams then become relegation candidates .

[LordCharles]

Another two teams at U16's in the NWC have just folded, both South Trafford Raiders and Burtonwood Blue Bulldogs are no more

Even more worrying is the fact I spoke to our opposition for Sunday earlier and the coach said, "we are struggling to get a team and will probably fold so its unlikely we will be able to play you on Sunday, any lads we have left will probably move up to our U18's for now".

Its becoming difficult to believe we will even have enough teams left to make the competition worthwhile or credible for much longer.

Edited by LordCharles, 12 September 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[gillmeister]

Another two teams at U16's in the NWC have just folded, both South Trafford Raiders and Burtonwood Blue Bulldogs are no more

Even more worrying is the fact I spoke to our opposition for Sunday earlier and the coach said, "we are struggling to get a team and will probably fold so its unlikely we will be able to play you on Sunday, any lads we have left will probably move up to our U18's for now".

Its becoming difficult to believe we will even have enough teams left to make the competition worthwhile or credible for much longer.

It seems like playing youth games at under 16 level after summer when they are transitioning from school to further education or a job isnt feasible, What response did BARLA get to there meeting recently and what are the alternatives??

[Marauder]

It seems like playing youth games at under 16 level after summer when they are transitioning from school to further education or a job isnt feasible, What response did BARLA get to there meeting recently and what are the alternatives??

I think it was Cutsyke Raider who pointed out to me the problem that the U16's could face with them finishing school half-way through their season a few weeks ago at one of their games.