37 replies to this topic

[Jonty]

In Sales defence, they had Saturday pencilled in first. Salford were orignally going to play on the Friday, but got switched for live TV coverage.

That's correct, Paul! Now I can see the bigger picture... Possibly an omen for things to come though!

[LOYALION]

It was mostly Sky's doing that 'persuaded' British rugby league clubs to amend their names so as to sound as much like American football teams as possible in the belief it would bring the game (or rather Sky themselves) loadsamoney and lots of much needed razzmatazz.

‘Hawks’, ‘Bulldogs’, ‘Centurions’, ‘Rhinos’, ‘Wolves’, ‘Wildcats’, ‘Giants’ etc, etc, etc, - makes you want to throw up doesn’t it?

At least ours has nothing cheesy and phoney about it as we've been ‘the Lions’ since Queen Victoria was a lass.

So 'Lions' are ok but 'Tigers' are not then Keith. Isn't that a 'little bit racist' ? Ha ha!

[Paul Davidson]

I wonder......
...what the increase in income, sponsorship and attendance has been that is solely attributable to clubs adding a species to their club name!!!!......What do you reckon Blue"Monkey"???

and just as a talking point (and off topic)...what would happen if Sky pulled the plug?

• income to SL clubs reduced?
• salaries reduced?
• top players go to Oz?
• more semi-pro in SL?
• more "amateurs" playing in lower leagues?
• "lower standard" of rugby across the board (all relative really so wouldn't bother me....perhaps fewer forward SL passes )?
• more local lads playing with pride for their home team?
• more obvious route for young players to progress?
• better community feel?
• lower/higher/equal local attendances?
• more interest from RFL in lower leagues?
• less money available for salaries at RFL?.................ah now I see one of the downsides!!!
• how more/less enjoyable is it watching two teams of higher paid players than watching your local team with local lads you might know and have an interest in play a very competitive amateur match against another good amateur team???

[PhillH]

Double post.

Annoying that spacing of text never seems to work properly on this forum if you use the quote feature.

Edited by PhillH, 06 September 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[PhillH]

We are already losing players to Australia, its sobering to see it happening with Lions players - showing the lure of Down Under isn't a reserve of players at the international level. Admittedly in part that is down to economic issues generally between the two countries.

BUT you've missed out a very big elephant in the room - i.e. Rugby Union.

While its not a surprise the main focus on this issue has been Salford having to move a solitary match out of their new home (from one ground not in Salford to another not in Salford if you ask me!), should we not be looking at the new presence of Sale Sharks on this side of the conurbation as the real threat? It would not surprise me in the slightest if their next move was to target a couple of League's "big name players" in an attempt to attract some speccies to switch codes. It particularly worries me that we will shortly see them invading local schools in an attempt to establish a RU culture - now they have got a foothold within the Education Authority area, huge RFU resources behind them and all.

We all seem to overlook that one of the big reasons we are less competitive against Australia than in a long time is that the long established conveyor belt of talented players from Union into League has gone into reverse.

[marshy1]

Goodness me Phil, you clearly haven't been keeping your finger on the pulse. In Bolton all schools at secondary level have had to play Union for 6 years due to the local LEA agreeing a deal with Bolton RUFC, so it won't be due to Sale Sharks at all.

[PhillH]

Goodness me Phil, you clearly haven't been keeping your finger on the pulse. In Bolton all schools at secondary level have had to play Union for 6 years due to the local LEA agreeing a deal with Bolton RUFC, so it won't be due to Sale Sharks at all.

Not particularly concerned about goings on in Bolton, but am aware of the broader trend wherein Union is outperforming League in developing itself and targetting significant resources into the north, often on the fringes of traditional League territory. Sale Sharks moving into Barton potentially gives the green light for union to pervade the City of Salford's schools and that definitely is a concern.

In the short term Sale Sharks will attract its support from other areas and the cultural impact locally will probably be quite limited. Probably no more than traffic jams in Peel Green on match days. But in the medium to longer term, by the time the next generation or two of supporter comes along, I'd be surprised if they don't have much more of an impact.

[marshy1]

Right in that case we only look at talent in Salford.!! Well in then we are up the river without a paddle for future talent. Do I also take it that if the club was informed of a good player at any Bolton institution they ignore it because of " the goings on in Bolton".

[Bryce]

Pretty much all of the Lancashire RL talent comes through the youth set-ups at Wigan, Saints and Warrington (even Widnes and Leigh). There aren't too many players from the Salford/Swinton/Manchester area, especially in SL. The amateur set-up in Leigh also seems to bring through more players than us lot!

Is it only Ian Watson, Al Hurst and Rob Foxen that actually come from round here and play for the Lions?

[Blue Monkey]

Is it only Ian Watson, Al Hurst and Rob Foxen that actually come from round here and play for the Lions?

I'm from 'round here', can I sign for t' Lions? I played for my school team in the second row at Station Road just a 'few years ago' - and - me Great Uncle Harold played in the Lions' pack just after t' Great War and during the early '20s.

Where should I sign Mr Chairman? I'd only be askin' 50 bob signin' on fee.

[PhillH]

Right in that case we only look at talent in Salford.!! Well in then we are up the river without a paddle for future talent. Do I also take it that if the club was informed of a good player at any Bolton institution they ignore it because of " the goings on in Bolton".

Not at all, of course Swinton Lions is at liberty to recruit players from wherever.

Arguably the lack of available talent in the local area at the moment is a reflection that Swinton has not been much of a "rugby league town" for 20 years. A case of "reap what you sow" regarding the lack of any sustained community development work for at least that long. It coincides with the lowest number of local people watching the Lions in many generations, too. These things are inter-related.

What Swinton Lions will not survive without is the next generation of supporters. And if the name of club means anything, the strategy ought to be to attract that next generation of supporters predominently from the Swinton area.

Developing the sport is not just about identifying talent to potentially go on and become professional players. It is also about igniting the interest of future supporters and raising the profile of the game in general. i.e. Developing the game locally needs to be an integral part of any meaningful strategy to grow the club itself. If we reach the point where nobody in Swinton knows anything much about rugby league, the Lions will not survive. We are already perilously close.

We've had many complaints on here over the years about Salford City Reds "moving in" and doing various things in the Swinton area. And that is an outfit with a relatively poor track record in marketing and development compared to Sale Sharks.

[mark richardson]

I don't think playing the game and watching the game are in any way connected to any degree that affects support.
How many of us were any more than half decent amateurs? How many ex pros regularly watch games? The ones I know hate to watch.
So does playing the game in school really have any relevance?
I was already a fan long before I started playing.
The commitment to become a pro player comes from the tradition of local teams. There are loads in Wigan. In swinton we've only ever had folly langworthy and eccles locally and our team set up reflects this in the proportion of players.
In the 60s our team was full of wiganers, blan stopford etc and people from all over. We got fans then because we were good.
The key to success is a good team with good reserves and our own local ground.
Those local players might then want to play for us. Kids might want to play rugby league and form an ambition to play for us. The failure of local development goes way beyond 1992 and the present management. It's an infrastructure which has never existed or been tapped into successfully either by us or Salford ever.

Edited by mark richardson, 07 September 2012 - 07:25 AM.

[juliancaine]

until we have our own ground in m27 things will never alter.

[PhillH]

I don't think playing the game and watching the game are in any way connected to any degree that affects support.
How many of us were any more than half decent amateurs? How many ex pros regularly watch games? The ones I know hate to watch.
So does playing the game in school really have any relevance?
I was already a fan long before I started playing.
The commitment to become a pro player comes from the tradition of local teams. There are loads in Wigan. In swinton we've only ever had folly langworthy and eccles locally and our team set up reflects this in the proportion of players.
In the 60s our team was full of wiganers, blan stopford etc and people from all over. We got fans then because we were good.
The key to success is a good team with good reserves and our own local ground.
Those local players might then want to play for us. Kids might want to play rugby league and form an ambition to play for us. The failure of local development goes way beyond 1992 and the present management. It's an infrastructure which has never existed or been tapped into successfully either by us or Salford ever.

While nothing will shake my belief that a vibrant game at amateur level and in the schools can only be a good thing (not only for the level of interest in the professional club but also more generally) I agree with many of your other points.

Even a cursory first hand experience of RL helps give young people an interest and appreciation of the sport. Without that it is less likely a young person will ever feel a longing to follow the game at any level. This is why it is in the best interests of the sport and its professional clubs to give as many young people as possible the chance to try their hand, even if most of those being targetted will not get near playing at professional level, including women by the way.

Even playing at a lower level gives benefits to the participants and society and helps embed a RL culture.

There is no doubt that Swinton sides throughout history have always relied on bringing players in from the likes of Wigan, Leigh, St Helens and to some extent Oldham. No doubt also that the club has never been much good at developing links into the amateur clubs and schools, even when based at Station Road. At best there have been ad hoc efforts now and again.

The quality of the infrastructure at the amateur clubs has always been pretty poor compared to what happens in those other areas.

However the past wasn't totally dark. At least when we had Station Road, primarily by being based in the area and playing out of an iconic venue, the club did inspire young guys to give the sport a go and if they were good enough have a crack at representing their town. Yes they had to use shoddy facilities, to a great extent battle against the odds, but some were still sufficiently inspired and some did make it.

So at times there has been a greater representation of locals. You need to go back to the late 80's though for there to have been significant numbers with the likes of Les and Mike Holliday, Mark Shealds, Steve Snape, John Horrocks, Mark Meadows et al. We do currently have Harrison Hansen and Kallum Watkins in SL.

The thing we don't know is just how good things could be if there was a concerted effort at development in the local area such as has been sustained in Warrington over the last few years. Massive potential, never tapped into, apparently in both our views.

Edited by PhillH, 08 September 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[marshy1]

Unless of course it's in Kearsley or Farnworth since they are in Bolton and you don't care what is happening in those schools, despite the fact the border to Bolton is less than 3 miles from Station Rd.

[PhillH]

Unless of course it's in Kearsley or Farnworth since they are in Bolton and you don't care what is happening in those schools, despite the fact the border to Bolton is less than 3 miles from Station Rd.

Never had you down as a RL expansionist Alan, nor a Boltonian.

I simply believe the priority for Swinton Lions ought to be Swinton and Pendlebury, where there is more than enough work needing to be done. The goal ought to be to get it right there, as first priority. If a point were ever reached when development work in the M27 community had got to saturation point, fine to then put resources into other areas. However that point is a very long way off.

Could it be that the reason you are so interested/well informed on the state of RL in Bolton is a reflection of that town being home to the current Lions management? They are on record as having a belief that East Lancashire is an area of great opportunity for RL. If they see a more prosperous future for a professional club there, it is in their gift to set one up and give it a go. It wouldn't get my support though. I think it dawned on them in 2008 that East Lancashire Lions playing at Darwen wouldn't get much support from others that currently follow Swinton Lions, either.

[marshy1]

Born and bred Swintonian Phil. Ludicrous comment regarding my knowledge of Bolton, the same could be asked of your knowledge of M27 development.....although I wouldn't go that far.

[Bryce]

I'm from 'round here', can I sign for t' Lions? I played for my school team in the second row at Station Road just a 'few years ago' - and - me Great Uncle Harold played in the Lions' pack just after t' Great War and during the early '20s.

Where should I sign Mr Chairman? I'd only be askin' 50 bob signin' on fee.

I'd have you in the team every week, sadly we can't afford your wage demands!

Seriously though, it would be nice to see more lads from the local area playing pro and semi pro RL.