Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 400 - Out Now!

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD MAGAZINE - ISSUE 400 - OUT NOW!
84 pages, 38 years of history from Open Rugby to the present day.
Click here for the digital edition to read online via smartphone, tablet and desktop devices including iPhone, iPad, Android & Kindle HD.
Click here to order a copy for delivery by post. Annual subscriptions also available worldwide.
Find out what's inside Issue 400
/ View a Gallery of all 400 covers / WH Smith Branches stocking Issue 400
Read Jamie Jones-Buchanan's Top 5 RLW Interviews including Marwan Koukash, Lee Briers, Gareth Thomas, Steve Ganson & Matt King OBE


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

NCL 3 next season


  • Please log in to reply
198 replies to this topic

#81 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,747 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:26 PM

What would happen to the NCL expansion if say Coventry join Championship 1 and Nottingham join a greater midlands conference? It's I believe too late for 4 divisions of 12.

#82 Marauder

Marauder
  • Coach
  • 11,699 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:40 PM

As the Sonics have brought their Application onto the forum I can tell you that distance of travel was not the issue , but I will not be drawn further.. Obviously distances have to be taken into account. But Hemel were in the NCL before. And it is a big ask to put amateurs on a 10 hour round trip ever other week ..... The NCL will NOT tolerate fixture failures without massive credible reasons.

The RFL ( the governing Body after all ) are seeking to invigorate Tier 3 with a Midlands Division comprising clubs aspiring to NCL standards who in some cases may still be a touch off the mark.That said the NCL template remains the best way forward for the game at these levels . That is not to say that other models in certain areas - new CC1 clubs for instance could perhaps be allowed to enter reserves into Tier 3 as pilots and without all the sub-structures - a lot of debate to be had I suspect in those infamous corridors.......

The NCL in the meantime have brought forward the voting on new applicants by months to monday in the hope that a start can be made on the structure everywhere for next year.

Yes Tim2 . Someone needs to take the lead and the NCL doesn't need to grow what it has never lost...... :blink:


If a new Championship 1 sides could/can/sure they will enter a team in tier 3, will they have to withdraw it after a set time?

Will allowing the new Championship 1 sides a team in the 3rd tier open the door for other Championship 1 sides in the heartlands to enter a team into tier 3?

If a side from Championship 1 gets promoted to the Championship will they still be allowed to have a team at tier 3?

Will a relegated team from the Championship be allowed to run a second team in the 3rd tier ?

I dare say that there are a lot more questions to be asked on this subject but I need to nip out to a meeting.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

#83 Marauder

Marauder
  • Coach
  • 11,699 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:44 PM

Understandable but makes a mockery of the "National" part of the name. Whilst I respect the NCL as a league - its commitment to standards in particular - in a way it is part of the problem that our game has in establishing a proper pyramid structure. not that I have a solution to that problem and I can see why clubs who are in the NCL don't want to compromise it and themsleves for what may or may not be a greater good.

Tim would you say that a pyramind system should feed from the bottom to the top or top to the bottom.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

#84 del capo

del capo
  • Coach
  • 761 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:44 PM

What would happen to the NCL expansion if say Coventry join Championship 1 and Nottingham join a greater midlands conference? It's I believe too late for 4 divisions of 12.


It's an issue of integrity Bowes. If you are put to the vote and are accepted then your immediate responsibility is to your new colleagues......

Changing your mind afterwards , and more especially being allowed in elsewhere by other competitions would have serious implications.......

That's why any club that wants to be voted needs to understand it's commitment or clear off now

#85 del capo

del capo
  • Coach
  • 761 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:52 PM

If a new Championship 1 sides could/can/sure they will enter a team in tier 3, will they have to withdraw it after a set time?

Will allowing the new Championship 1 sides a team in the 3rd tier open the door for other Championship 1 sides in the heartlands to enter a team into tier 3?

If a side from Championship 1 gets promoted to the Championship will they still be allowed to have a team at tier 3?

Will a relegated team from the Championship be allowed to run a second team in the 3rd tier ?

I dare say that there are a lot more questions to be asked on this subject but I need to nip out to a meeting.


Good questions all Marauder. Hence my reference to those infamous corridors.... :)

#86 West Country Eagle

West Country Eagle
  • Coach
  • 5,803 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:55 PM

As the Sonics have brought their Application onto the forum I can tell you that distance of travel was not the issue , but I will not be drawn further.. Obviously distances have to be taken into account. But Hemel were in the NCL before. And it is a big ask to put amateurs on a 10 hour round trip ever other week ..... The NCL will NOT tolerate fixture failures without massive credible reasons.


Whatever the reason for the decision, we do need to be playing at Tier 3, as do St Albans, Northampton and a few others.

The South West needs a Tier 3 standard side, given the development work that's going on and the Championship 1 team launching next year. The RFL know this, though, and they also know there needs to be a viable Tier 3 competition for clubs in the Midlands and South, or they risk seriously harming development in key locations with plenty of promise. There are serious hurdles to overcome, and friction between the existing elite amateur competition (and presumably the clubs in it) and the governing body doesn't help. It's obvious what the RFL wants, but it doesn't seem like the NCL wants to play along. Which, of course, is their right as it's their competition.

Bit of a mess, really.

Edited by West Country Eagle, 20 September 2012 - 09:19 PM.

Bristol Sonics Rugby League
2007 & 2008 West Midlands RLC Champions
2008 RLC Regional Grand Finalists
2008 RLC Team Of The Year
2011 RLC Midlands Premier Champions
www.bristolsonics.com

� Stupid Questions League Winner 2004 �

#87 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,747 posts

Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:04 PM

Several problems here really:

1. The NCL clubs refused to go to 4 divisions of 12 as this would harm one season's promotion chances, despite this providing an expansion opportunity and doing away with midweek games. This means division 3 is at a bare minimum number of clubs with serious consequences if one pulls out

2. There are 5 Yorkshire sides the RFL don't know what to do with that are strong on the field, but for various reasons undesirable to the NCL (if NCL 3 falls through this list could be expanded to 6). It would be very unlikely for North West clubs, even ones with NCL ambitions, to want to leave the NW Men's Premier to play these clubs though.

3. The London clubs are very resistant to change and thus not likely to join a Southern tier 3 league leaving such a league potentially short of numbers. On the flipside the midlands premier can't manage with the standards gaps this would cause.

Possible solutions:

1. Link the Yorkshire and Midlands/South sides (and Warrington Wizards) into a NCL 4 for clubs failing NCL criteria. This has the serious downfall of many games would be called off a la Kippax and South Wales Hornets this year so I think this is a non starter.

2. Base something around reserve teams of Championship 1 clubs and the best of the midlands, West Country and East. Skolars A may be an outpost. Hopefully viable.

3. Link the 5 strong Yorkshire sides (in on field terms) with feeder clubs to Championship sides plus any interested Lancashire sides (if any). This is only viable if the NCL don't agree to dual registration with the Championship.

However, if NCL3 falls through it really would be back to the drawing board

#88 del capo

del capo
  • Coach
  • 761 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:01 AM

Let's see what the vote brings.

I'm sure the NCL will have contingency plans to cover every result.

It's far from messy as far as the NCL are concerned and there is no friction between them and the RFL . Unusual to hear that view on these boards - it's normally ' they're in their pocket ' stuff !

#89 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,747 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:23 AM

Let's see what the vote brings.

I'm sure the NCL will have contingency plans to cover every result.

It's far from messy as far as the NCL are concerned and there is no friction between them and the RFL . Unusual to hear that view on these boards - it's normally ' they're in their pocket ' stuff !

Good to hear. Just 2 issues to sort out and think the RFL have 3. sorted, so just 2. to address.

#90 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,747 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:32 PM

It's an issue of integrity Bowes. If you are put to the vote and are accepted then your immediate responsibility is to your new colleagues......

Changing your mind afterwards , and more especially being allowed in elsewhere by other competitions would have serious implications.......

That's why any club that wants to be voted needs to understand it's commitment or clear off now

Looks like we're in the NCL then, subject to the clubs' vote. At least for one season.

Edited by bowes, 21 September 2012 - 03:33 PM.


#91 thestatman

thestatman
  • Coach
  • 1,577 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:56 PM

Looks like we're in the NCL then, subject to the clubs' vote. At least for one season.

It looks like that maybe the case as you would think that the RFL would have told the NCL if Coventry were being elevated to CC1. But then again the RFL do have a tendency to fire bullets into their own feet, that said i'm pretty sure the NCL management would have asked for clarity on the matter.

SINGING MY MUM'S A .......

 

 

Views are my own and not necessarily those of Thatto Heath Crusaders!!


#92 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,747 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:06 PM

It looks like that maybe the case as you would think that the RFL would have told the NCL if Coventry were being elevated to CC1. But then again the RFL do have a tendency to fire bullets into their own feet, that said i'm pretty sure the NCL management would have asked for clarity on the matter.

Yeah I'm impressed they made a decision before the NCL clubs vote.

#93 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,488 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:08 PM

It's an issue of integrity Bowes. If you are put to the vote and are accepted then your immediate responsibility is to your new colleagues......

Changing your mind afterwards , and more especially being allowed in elsewhere by other competitions would have serious implications.......

That's why any club that wants to be voted needs to understand it's commitment or clear off now


Do you think the vote on Coventry will be affected by the news that they are planning on leaving after just one season?
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#94 del capo

del capo
  • Coach
  • 761 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:39 PM

Do you think the vote on Coventry will be affected by the news that they are planning on leaving after just one season?


I hope not but let's see.

It's in the very clear interests of the NCL that all the recommended applicants are admitted , because that increases the viability of extending the divisional structures.. And gives another season to other sides to hone their own applications....

The NCL have never had a problem over being a conduit for the RFL. Any club coming into this competition with aspirations to be elsewhere should be encouraged. But make no mistake, we are a real testing ground......' weighed, measured and found wanting ' and all that.

A 2014 application to the RFL from less than top of any new NCL division would perhaps draw some interesting comments......

2015 and onwards may be more appropriate, but hey , who knows , this is Rugby League ... :D

#95 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,488 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:21 PM

I hope not but let's see.

It's in the very clear interests of the NCL that all the recommended applicants are admitted , because that increases the viability of extending the divisional structures.. And gives another season to other sides to hone their own applications....

The NCL have never had a problem over being a conduit for the RFL. Any club coming into this competition with aspirations to be elsewhere should be encouraged. But make no mistake, we are a real testing ground......' weighed, measured and found wanting ' and all that.

A 2014 application to the RFL from less than top of any new NCL division would perhaps draw some interesting comments......

2015 and onwards may be more appropriate, but hey , who knows , this is Rugby League ... :D


That's good, although I'm not sure finishing position in any NCL division would be relevant to any application. The RFL will be looking at the strength and potential of the club as a whole rather than its team performance over once season.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#96 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,488 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:45 PM

If a new Championship 1 sides could/can/sure they will enter a team in tier 3, will they have to withdraw it after a set time?

Will allowing the new Championship 1 sides a team in the 3rd tier open the door for other Championship 1 sides in the heartlands to enter a team into tier 3?

If a side from Championship 1 gets promoted to the Championship will they still be allowed to have a team at tier 3?

Will a relegated team from the Championship be allowed to run a second team in the 3rd tier ?

I dare say that there are a lot more questions to be asked on this subject but I need to nip out to a meeting.


Surely it wouldn't be acceptable for any club to run a second team in the NCL as it is a league for elite community clubs. It could be a useful policy to allow championship 1 clubs from outside the heartlands to enter 2nd teams in any southern/midland tier three competition, though. The game is not exactly overflowing with suitable clubs in those regions - clubs that are stable, can put out strong teams, and can do so consistently for an extended season - so utilising 'A' teams of championship 1 could make tier 3 status viable for s & m ( :o) clubs.

It isn't without precedent either. In soccer, most areas had dedicated reserve leagues in the past. In the outlying areas, though, clubs entered their reserves in fairly senior regional non-league competitions. That saved on travelling costs, and I'm sure clubs like Torquay and Exeter followed such a policy.

What is right for the heartlands (and what would be considered acceptable there) is not necessarily appropriate for the more southern areas.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#97 thestatman

thestatman
  • Coach
  • 1,577 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:52 PM

Do you think the vote on Coventry will be affected by the news that they are planning on leaving after just one season?


I don't think it will as the teams that will be voting Coventry in will not be playing against them in anything other than cup competitions, as they will be in a newly created division (with the possible exception of Heworth - should they be relegated to make 10 teams in Div 3 and 12 in Div 2). Had they been coming into the existing three division structure I think this may well have been viewed differently by existing members.

SINGING MY MUM'S A .......

 

 

Views are my own and not necessarily those of Thatto Heath Crusaders!!


#98 thestatman

thestatman
  • Coach
  • 1,577 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:54 PM

Surely it wouldn't be acceptable for any club to run a second team in the NCL as it is a league for elite community clubs. It could be a useful policy to allow championship 1 clubs from outside the heartlands to enter 2nd teams in any southern/midland tier three competition, though. The game is not exactly overflowing with suitable clubs in those regions - clubs that are stable, can put out strong teams, and can do so consistently for an extended season - so utilising 'A' teams of championship 1 could make tier 3 status viable for s & m ( :o) clubs.

It isn't without precedent either. In soccer, most areas had dedicated reserve leagues in the past. In the outlying areas, though, clubs entered their reserves in fairly senior regional non-league competitions. That saved on travelling costs, and I'm sure clubs like Torquay and Exeter followed such a policy.

What is right for the heartlands (and what would be considered acceptable there) is not necessarily appropriate for the more southern areas.


It won't maybe they could run in a separate competition that could be pitch at Tier 3, but it won't happen in the NCL.

SINGING MY MUM'S A .......

 

 

Views are my own and not necessarily those of Thatto Heath Crusaders!!


#99 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,488 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:00 PM

It won't maybe they could run in a separate competition that could be pitch at Tier 3, but it won't happen in the NCL.


Yes, that's what I was getting at. Tier 3 in the heartlands equals NCL, and that competition has very high standards - standards that are relevant for communities that have been playing the game for generations.

For the newer RL communities, though, a slightly different approach might be helpful.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#100 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,747 posts

Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:11 PM

I'd go as far as saying any Conference South could not happen without Championship 1 reserve sides.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users