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Warrington it is.


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#1 marshy1

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:57 AM

Swinton join forces with Warrington


Looks like they are our new dual registered partners for 2013 season.

#2 pc6090

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:18 AM

does that include use of their ground :-)

#3 mark richardson

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:40 AM

Could've been worse. Couldn't be much better.
In terms of this in its own right and regardless of the arguments for and against dual reg.

#4 bigtony

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:46 AM

Just worries me with the amount of d/r players champ clubs can use per game and wont give a true reflection of the championship, worse still whose saying it wont increase again next season.Is this the start of feeder clubs ???????, worrying times for me

#5 marshy1

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:02 AM

I have to agree Tony that this could be a problem.
I'm not sure if the club or clubs had a choice in this matter or if it is a RL directive.

#6 bigtony

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:15 AM

Im sure if ALL championship clubs stood together then the rl would have to sit up and take notice.If people think about it next season swintons starting pack could have no swinton players in it and thats not counting the 4 loan players they can have, so thats 10 players in total from outside the club which will b nearly half swintons squad

#7 PhillH

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

Not a great surprise.

In recent years Warrington has put a lot of emphasis on developing young players, with several given sporadic first team appearances in SL through 2012. It is pretty tragic for them that the RFL has pulled the rug from under their feet by erasing the chance to play at academy level next season. So there will be a group of young players there looking for an opportunity in 2013.

Truth is, without dual registered players the 2012 squad wasn't good enough to be competitive against the Championship's better sides. An injection of quality is needed if the objective is to climb the league in 2013. However lessons need to be taken on board from the experience of having up to 4 dual registered players this season, in terms of continuity and impact on morale and development of the part time members of the squad.

Like a number of pre-eminent coaches in the Championship, I have major reservations about the whole concept. For starters, we HAVE heard it all before - with Saints back in 2007. Were any of the supposed benefits then ever delivered on - a definite "Non". Will the same words applied 5 years on to Warrington be any different?

http://menmedia.co.u...ions_and_saints

To deliver any sort of long term value for the Lions, the club has to be prepared to focus on more than just a means of getting hold of 6 dual registered players. Such as - up its game off the field - see in close detail how the Halliwell Jones stadium has been developed and used, compare and contrast that with Barton and try to apply some lessons learnt to Agecroft. Ah yes Agecroft, interesting line on that project in the above link, too.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#8 PhillH

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:25 AM

I have to agree Tony that this could be a problem.
I'm not sure if the club or clubs had a choice in this matter or if it is a RL directive.

There is no obligation on Championship clubs to enter into a partnership agreement. There appears to be something of a split developing, wherein the more successful Championship sides are rejecting the idea whereas those in the lower reaches with smaller support bases are naturally keener.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#9 marshy1

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:42 AM

I can't see any rejection from Leigh and the certainly benefited this season.

All boils down to if the clubs are running "A Teams" sadly we don't.

#10 Leyther_Matt

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:15 AM

I can't see any rejection from Leigh and the certainly benefited this season.

All boils down to if the clubs are running "A Teams" sadly we don't.

We've agreed in the past to the 4 dual contract rule and have had them for a variety of clubs, but I would like to think we won't be going anywhere near having a formal arrangement with a single club. Basically boils down to the Super League clubs not wishing to run the two academy sides (U18 and U20) with next season this becoming a single U19 league - the players being 'loaned' to Championship clubs will be the best of this year's U20's comp who are too old for U19's in 2013. A huge step towards feeder clubs and it's a sad day for the Championship as each club agrees to it, especially given the huge amount of work that people have put in over the years to keep the Swinton name alive.

#11 PaulT

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:18 AM

To be honest, for the short term, this is a great idea. Warrington and one of the best run clubs on and off the field and there's a lot we can take from the club than just dual reg players.

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#12 PhillH

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:01 PM

To be honest, for the short term, this is a great idea. Warrington and one of the best run clubs on and off the field and there's a lot we can take from the club than just dual reg players.


There are a few problems with that sentiment.

There is no need for a formal partnership for clubs to share ideas. Besides, a lot of this stuff is not rocket science.

Another valid question being: To what extent can Swinton Lions realistically look to replicate what Warrington do?

The central issue here is the nature of the relationship that Swinton Lions wants to have with the people who play for the club.

As we saw with the supposed link with Saints that delivered precisely nothing, it would be a mistake to think a partnership in itself will grow Swinton Lions. The key to that is hard work and effective governance, potential ways to improve the status quo are easy enough to identify without getting in bed with Warrington.

Edited by PhillH, 12 September 2012 - 12:02 PM.

Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#13 bowes

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

I can't see any rejection from Leigh and the certainly benefited this season.

All boils down to if the clubs are running "A Teams" sadly we don't.

I doubt they'll have Championship U23 next year as there were only 6 teams in it and wasn't a close league. But depends if the NCL allow dual registration of Championship players or not

Interesting how this affects whether they keep P & R between the Championship and Championship 1 as could see a scenario whereby the clubs that opt out finish bottom even if they're the bigger clubs.

#14 Bryce

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

Assuming we'll be able to use their conditioners etc, it could be a really good partnership if taken seriously by all parties.

It's all well and good saying that we should be developing our own players, but is that going to keep us in the Championship? It's not really a sport for sentiment, especially not in the Championship. Do we really think that if Karl Ashall, Neil Holland or any of our young players had an outstanding season and ripped up the Chmpionship (A-la chris Hill 2010/11, Leigh - Warrington), that they'd stick around with Swinton because we helped them develop into the best players they can be? I very much doubt it, they'd thank us and probably look back at their time with us in good spirits, but that doesn't help Swinton Lions.

If the D/R lads are good enough, Foster, Riley, Walker etc, then they should be in our team, helping us to survive as a Championship club.

As Phil has noted earlier, it's events off the field that will help us progress in the long term. The partnership with Warrington could be a real help to us in the short term, on the pitch.

Dwyer is one of the Hot prospects in SL, if Warrington let him come to us for some first team action, that would be quality!

And as per Spelly's post on the website, there were alot of good players in their team earlier in the year (I was there Spelly!)

#15 DemonUK

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

Its a cr5p idea and is the beginning of the end. 4 players is just about fine. Ten players is a joke. You are now a feeder club and the Swinton identity hangs by a thread. Your chairman has thrown in the towel of ever getting to the top, hence no agecroft. These 'agreements' completely devalue the Championship. I will never watch the team i support if over half of the players are not their own.

Sorry folks, no forecast comp this year


#16 bigtony

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

Assuming we'll be able to use their conditioners etc, it could be a really good partnership if taken seriously by all parties.

It's all well and good saying that we should be developing our own players, but is that going to keep us in the Championship? It's not really a sport for sentiment, especially not in the Championship. Do we really think that if Karl Ashall, Neil Holland or any of our young players had an outstanding season and ripped up the Chmpionship (A-la chris Hill 2010/11, Leigh - Warrington), that they'd stick around with Swinton because we helped them develop into the best players they can be? I very much doubt it, they'd thank us and probably look back at their time with us in good spirits, but that doesn't help Swinton Lions.

If the D/R lads are good enough, Foster, Riley, Walker etc, then they should be in our team, helping us to survive as a Championship club.

As Phil has noted earlier, it's events off the field that will help us progress in the long term. The partnership with Warrington could be a real help to us in the short term, on the pitch.

Dwyer is one of the Hot prospects in SL, if Warrington let him come to us for some first team action, that would be quality!

And as per Spelly's post on the website, there were alot of good players in their team earlier in the year (I was there Spelly!)

Then you will be more than happy with this news and the fact swinton are 1step closer to being a feeder club and in time losing its identity,a sad day for swinton and championship rugby

#17 Bryce

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:20 PM

You do realise you're talking about Swinton Lions here? A team that haven't played in Swinton for 20 years. If you were that offended by Swinton losing it's identity then you wouldn't have followed them over the years, post Station Road. Alot of people still follow Swinton because of the legacy of the Lions and the Swinton name itself.

This partnership and the loss of identity are completely different issues. The fact that the Agecroft Stadium hasn't been built is yet another issue.

A feeder club is having first dibs on any decent players you create, which is what already happens in the Championship and has done for a long time.

The issues are surrounding the difference in size and quality between Championship clubs and SL clubs if you look at the bigger picture.

The partnership will help Swinton's performance in the Championship and most probably off it, if we can use it properly. But as usual, let's look at it like what seems to be every single RL fan, yes, the world is ending.

I'd probably be more bothered if we had any type of youth set-up, but we just don't. Every player that currently plays for us has progressed and started at other clubs and as I stated on another topic, I believe only Al hurst, Watto and Rob Foxen are actually from Swinton (two from Salfords set-up, the other from Warrington).

#18 DemonUK

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

So you're new found player development job is to develop players for a SL club for free. You still have no youth development of your own.

All clubs entering into these 10 player arrangements should be entered into a new 'No Identity' league. No place for them in the championships IMO

Sorry folks, no forecast comp this year


#19 Bryce

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:47 PM

That's the point, we don't have a youth set up.

In my opinion there's no place for teams that can't balance their books, it's happeneing all the time and is a bigger issue than this.

#20 duffymoon

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:48 PM

I can see merits in the arrangement but am worried about the number of players that could be used.