98 replies to this topic

[gingerjon]

I see all that but I also just keep hearing slogans and vagueness

I guess the first in line will be South Yorkshire Police

Then who? Will that be the end of it and a line be drawn or will this subject rumble on and others be pursued? If so who?

Rumble on? Twenty-three years of lies were revealed less than 9 hours ago.

A line be drawn? Not one single person has faced any kind of justice yet.

[GURNER]

no, I am not quick to jump down anyones throat but you have to accept this can be an inflamatory subject if posted without a little thought or consideration. I am still mindful of this cropping up a few years ago and one or two posters were of the opinion of what the authorities and media said was gospel.

In my humble opinion, what occurred today achieved two things

1) those present at the game and indeed the people of merseyside, can after 23 years feel exonerated of blame, for any of the allegations (unsubstantiated) leveled against them

2) the families of those that lost loved ones, now have a direction to go to persue closure for their loss of loved ones

as an aside but relevant to 1 and 2

those that were responsible/culpable for the deaths of 96 people, hopefully will now face justice for their actions/inactions.

whether families who suffered loss will actually be at rest is unknown.............but the families who have been deceived for so long, deserve the chance of justice, doing what it should do to find out.

hope this helps

Edited by GURNER, 12 September 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Bob8]

After 23 years, the families of the 96 have been proved to have been correct.

They were proved to be correct 22 years ago.

Now it is all in the open and everyone can just carry on as though nothing happened. No-one will be punished and there will still be idiots who believe what was in the Sun over what they saw on television. The official verdict is all very nice, now that time has removed all impact.

[Leeds Wire]

Why did it take 23 years?

[Padge]

Why did it take 23 years?

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

[rockerlad]

This is one of the more shocking images to emerge over the last couple of days that was published on Twitter. Fans trying to help fans, police with backs turned. left me speechless.

this makes me feel sick!

[Griff9of13]

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

Which goes to prove the old adage: "tell a lie big enough and often enough and it becomes the accepted truth".

It just goes to prove that it is very dangerous to consign any group of people to a stereotype. There are 1.3m people in the Merseyside area, and surprisingly enough not all are trackie wearing, perm sporting, be-tached scallies on the make. Across Liverpool and Merseyside there is a rich mixture of all types and class of people, just like any other place in the country and indeed the world. Consigning groups of people into stereotypes is something we as rugby league fans should be particularly concious of; how often have we had to fight against an image of us that is often portrayed in the media as cloth cap wearing, whippet breeding northern dolts who only use the bath for storing coal in?

The fact is scousers are no more whingers than cockneys, geordies or even wiganers. But in this instance they had something to ###### well whinge about.

[gingerjon]

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

Moaning scousers, eh?


Claire McGlone was a toddler when her father, Alan, was killed at Hillsborough. She has grown to know her father, who was 28, through the prism of the disaster and the investigation of the independent panel

"I was 13 or 14, I think, when I started knowing my dad was in a crowd and there were a few people and people got hurt. Everything from my dad's body, files, statements, any bit of camera evidence we could get our hands on, we have.

"The video footage we've seen is just horrendous. Just knowing when you are looking at what's happening there are people standing there not helping, they're not helping my dad.

"A policeman says he appeared dead. Now I don't know how you appear when you are dead but he doesn't check him.

"I just think [the report] is going to bring a level of understanding."

Edited by gingerjon, 13 September 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[guess who]

i believe this goes much deeper.

Any statements given by the police officers who lied, will now be called into question. This must mean that hundreds if not thousands of cases have to be called into question.

[Futtocks]

Has anyone approached Simon Heffer and Boris Johnson for their comments?

LINK TO EXCERPT FROM ARTICLE

[gingerjon]

Has anyone approached Simon Heffer and Boris Johnson for their comments?

Isn't odd that in London if BoJo was leader the Tory vote goes up but in the north the Tory vote drops still further? Strange that, can't think why.

Boris says he didn't write that by the way, just approved without reading.

[Griff9of13]

Boris says he didn't write that by the way, just approved without reading.

In that case he's even more stupid than he appears. If that's possible.

[JohnM]

Its going to be difficult to comment on stereotyping in this particular thread without it being misinterpreted.

However, for many many years and for many many people, all over the country, there was widespread (though not universal) trust in the police..for instance, magistrates generally preferred the police version of an event over the plaintiff's version. As we have learnt subsequently on so many occasions, the police do not always tell the truth and the media, the politicians and the population at large are thankfully now much more questioning.

In addition, for those with no real experiences of Liverpool in the 70s , 80s and beyond, people's views were informed by dock strikes, the activities of the Derek Hatton years, Bread, Militant, Toxteth, Boys from the Black Stuff, etc,

Thus, 23 years ago, when the SYP briefed the news agency in Sheffield, there was a general propensity amongst the media, the politicians and the population at large to prefer the police view.

Edited by JohnM, 13 September 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Severus]

Its going to be difficult to comment on stereotyping in this particular thread without it being misinterpreted.

However, for many many years and for many many people, all over the country, there was an expectation that the police generally told the truth. Thus, 23 years ago, when the SYP briefed the news agency in Sheffield, there was a general propensity amongst the media, the politicians and the population at large to prefer the police view.

As we have learnt subsequently on so many occasions, the police do not always tell the truth and the media, the politicians and the population at large are thankfully now much more questioning.

I can understand, but not condone, senior officers covering up their mistakes leading to this disaster. But why haven't we heard from any whistle blowers amongst the ranks who were there? Is it down to some masonic sense of loyalty or a culture of arrogance amongst the police?

I am stereotyping police officers but surely there would be one or two who could've spoken out.

Edited by Severus, 13 September 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[WearyRhino]

i believe this goes much deeper.

Any statements given by the police officers who lied, will now be called into question. This must mean that hundreds if not thousands of cases have to be called into question.

There was ample evidence of all not being well at SYP five years earlier:

Guardian.co.uk - Hillsborough and Battle of Orgreave: one police force, two disgraces http://m.guardian.co...gW7J5bA.twitter

[Griff9of13]

I can understand, but not condone, senior officers covering up their mistakes leading to this disaster. But why haven't we heard from any whistle blowers amongst the ranks who were there? Is it down to some masonic sense of loyalty or a culture of arrogance amongst the police?

I am stereotyping police officers but surely there would be one or two who could've spoken out.

I can't speak for all of them but I know for a fact that some were leaned on very heavily by their superiors and had their careers threatened. Here is the story from one who I've actually met.

[gingerjon]

i believe this goes much deeper.

Any statements given by the police officers who lied, will now be called into question. This must mean that hundreds if not thousands of cases have to be called into question.

Remind me again how many police officers have ever been found guilty with regards to a death that happened when they were on duty?

[gingerjon]

Breaking on the BBC is that BoJo has said he is "very, very sorry".

[JohnM]

I can understand, but not condone, senior officers covering up their mistakes leading to this disaster. But why haven't we heard from any whistle blowers amongst the ranks who were there? Is it down to some masonic sense of loyalty or a culture of arrogance amongst the police?

I am stereotyping police officers but surely there would be one or two who could've spoken out.

Whistleblowing is a dangerous thing to do. see for example, http://www.thebureau...00000-supergag/

and http://www.nujcec.or...euinstit-trans/

and http://news.bbc.co.u...alth/532006.stm

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Scepticism (by me included) about scousers and their motives for anything and everything they always whinge about.

that kind of thinking is so unlike you Dave

I respect the fact that you put your hands up to it.