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Saints - Oldham agreement


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#61 higgy

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:23 AM

If we become a feeder club, we might as well start supporting and wearing the colours of the club we are feeding, How can you get behind a team that doesn't represent the club and fans it's playing for.

#62 oldhamer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:17 PM

Rugby Union is showing League up lock, stock and Barrell, on and off the field. The RFL should look to the RU on how to administrate the game from grass roots upwards, with clear pathways and structures, instead of changing it because they have ran out of money, whilst paying themselves 200k upwards for the privilege.
Whilst RL may seem the game boring, I am sure RU people say the same about RL. But look at the crowds on SKY, no excuses from their supporters the game is televised, or its not included in the season ticket.


#63 rugbyman1

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

RU is going forward, RL is in reverse. RU could fill Twickenham every week with league games RL can't even fill Warrington.RU is national RL is still a regional game.The main difference though is that RU supports the game from top to bottom where RL clearly has a split between SL and everyone else.
One for all and all for the one

#64 roughyedspud

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:35 PM

rugby union clubs are losing money at a far greater rate than rugby league clubs are.......


and if union could sell out twickenham every week quins would play there....but they don't the play at a 15,000 capacity stadium across the road!

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#65 oldhamer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

RU clubs are losing money at an alarming rate compared to league? Are they, would you like to place a bet on that?
How many teams in RU are as desperate as Bradford are, and more or less Salford?
League used to have the edge over its other code at club level pre professional of RU, now they stamp all over RL in terms of competition, structure and cash.

#66 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:55 AM

Union clubs are in financial trouble at all levels. There is no straight promotion to the premiership (london welsh got in on appeal). RL beats RU on sky viewing. Clubs in various leagues are arguing with the RFU. The europeon comp is under threat of English clubs walking out.

Yes all is wonderful in RU world. If you like no tries, collapsed scrums, poor handling and a penaltython go watch union.
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#67 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:56 AM

And union clubs already have feeder teams with dual registered players. So I'm sure you will all now stop watching union too...
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#68 HARRYRUBY

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:58 PM

It is true Bedford Roughyed that a breakaway with clubs outside have at the PRESENT TIME no funding and no sponsors but that could change once they have broken away.

Why should an investor put money into a feeder club. They might as well put in the SL club in the first place.

Thev RFL will not want this as players moving to Super League from the breakaway clubs may be subject to a tansfer fee or compensation.

But lets cast our minds back to the early days of Super Leage and look what was on the agenda at that time.

Clubs were being asked to merge.

What is the feeder system but a merger of clubs by the back door with the championship clubs becoming not much different than a Super Leage club reserve side.

What the clubs outside Super League require is a system that caters for ambition.

Why not have promotion and relegation between leagues but on the proviso that the a club not meeting the criteria cannot go up.

For example If in the Championship the Top two clubs were Batley and Keighley who did not meet the criteria but the third clug either Halifax or Leigh did then why not promote that third club.

The incentive for clubs is first to meet the criteria and second to finish in a position that you would get promotion.

Without some sort of incentive to take a club to the top why should any potential investor want to get involved.

#69 saints10coach

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:23 PM

Harry I would tailor your solution to say if the top club does not meet the criteria. Do not promote them, but take 50% off the bottom SL clubs money for the next season, and contribute it towards the failings of the top championship clubs for meeting the criteria. This way clubs who did not meet the criteria would eventually close the gap regarding facilities etc.

#70 roughyedspud

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:12 AM

RU clubs are losing money at an alarming rate compared to league? Are they, would you like to place a bet on that?
How many teams in RU are as desperate as Bradford are, and more or less Salford?
League used to have the edge over its other code at club level pre professional of RU, now they stamp all over RL in terms of competition, structure and cash.


yes i would like to bet on that!!

http://www.telegraph...bt-burden.html#

Rugby clubs battle debt burden

As the new Guinness Premiership campaign gets underway on Friday night, a report into the financial performance of the 12 clubs has revealed that “almost all” continue to suffer operating losses, with a combined loss of over £10 million reported in the 2007/08 season.



http://www.yorkshire...e_red_1_3327817

The club’s plight is symptomatic of a [font=inherit !important][font=inherit !important]financial[/font][/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] crisis engulfing the English game.A report revealed that the combined losses for 10 of the 12 Premiership clubs this season was £19m. Leicester and Northampton are believed to be operating in the black.[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
“It’s not getting any easier throughout the Premiership, the whole game is going through lean times,” said Hetherington.
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“After 15 years the professional game would appear now to be at an all-time low and for the Premiership as a whole there doesn’t seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. The whole system depends on the personal benevolence of a very small number of people.”[/font]


even the RFU announced a £4million loss!!



so for winning my bet.........i'd like you to change your name to "im a union troll"........ta

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#71 oldhamer

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

The Telegraph article is dated in 2009! Based on 2007/08 Season. 5 years is a big difference to where we are now. For example, 5 years ago the structure from grassroots upwards was a complete different animal to the balls up it is today.

And for the last article in 2011, a year old. The opening line of "Gary Hetherington..." stopped me dead in my tracks, as he has only one vision.....himself.

And as a Union troll....I doubt that pal. Supported league for nearly thirty years as a fan, player and coach, and continue to do so. Having seen both sides of the fence regards grassroots development as a parent/coach, RU is going to pick up from RL's major mistakes, to which they are making many. RL is going downhill, the Bradford fiasco must start ringing alarm bells for starters. For example, after December, Oldham will not have anyone employed by the RFL to introduce RL in schools/clubs, or running the Service Area/Talent Centres due to cost cutting? Oldham are not on there own in this, other areas are being affected too. Can you see the RFU sitting back and not exploiting this? I can't.
SL being allowed to drop their teams below the firsts to set up links with Championship Clubs is another farce, and one that will strip clubs of their identities, and values - something the RFL have been brewing up for years - and yes, I have been to meetings where this has been a hot topic of debate, yet the RFL had never the balls to admit it, and refused to attend, until the final meeting of the SA in Oldham, which incidentally help kill the SA off.

Edited by oldhamer, 17 October 2012 - 10:11 AM.


#72 roughyedspud

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

i used the 09 article to show how the total debt for a season had rose from £10million in 08...to £19million last year when the last full financial statement..


by comparison super league clubs lost around £8million this past season...........


so my statement that rugby union clubs are losing money at a far greater rate than rugby league clubs stands true....

and its ok....you can show your ###### on the town hall steps if you like? lol

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#73 oldhamer

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:03 AM

http://www.rfu.com/A...port_11-12.ashx

Makes very interesting reading, especially when you see the biggest income isn't from SKY or ticket sales, but from catering.

Edited by oldhamer, 17 October 2012 - 11:09 AM.


#74 roughyedspud

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:12 AM

when u own your own stadium...and sell it out,80k plus 7 or 8 times a year...as well as hosting a concert or 2 every year....thats not surprising tbh

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#75 oldhamer

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:22 AM

We can't sellout the CC Final, Semis or Play Off Semis let alone fill a ground to 80k :)


Interesting though, that some of the clubs limitations is stadium capacities not being big enough. What SL clubs have that problem?

#76 roughyedspud

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

we can't sell out the challenge cup final cos we only have 72,000 of the 90,000 tickets to sell.....the rest are club wembley ticket holders..we have nothing to do with that....the last challenge cup final drew 79,180.....the union final drew 81,000 @ twickenham....its not worth arguing over the difference lol


and which union club stadium is'nt big enough?? the size of the stadiums in the aviva premiership are'nt a million miles away from ours in super league...2 or 3 25k stadia....a few 14k-19k..then 10k - 14k the rest....and the average attendances between the aviva premiership & super league differs by only 1500-2000....theres hardly clear water between the 2.........apart from union loses far more money than we do lol

Edited by roughyedspud, 17 October 2012 - 12:10 PM.

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#77 HARRYRUBY

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:10 PM

Harry I would tailor your solution to say if the top club does not meet the criteria. Do not promote them, but take 50% off the bottom SL clubs money for the next season, and contribute it towards the failings of the top championship clubs for meeting the criteria. This way clubs who did not meet the criteria would eventually close the gap regarding facilities etc.


Interesting point you make there.

#78 oldhamer

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:47 PM

and which union club stadium is'nt big enough?? the size of the stadiums in the aviva premiership are'nt a million miles away from ours in super league...2 or 3 25k stadia....a few 14k-19k..then 10k - 14k the rest....and the average attendances between the aviva premiership & super league differs by only 1500-2000....theres hardly clear water between the 2.........apart from union loses far more money than we do lol


Read your 2008 article......................

#79 john in oz

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:24 AM

I've thought for a long time that we should distance ourselves from SL and form a one division set up like it used to be in days gone by. You could, possibly, create two divisions with P & R, the second of which could be new teams in other parts of the country who want to enter the league. We should get rid of the NR Cup and return to winter rugby, far too many distractions in summer, and bring back the county cups. I would also be in favour of mounting a legal challenge, pardon the pun, to bring the Challenge Cup into our ownership and prevent SL clubs from competing in the competition. You are right that the competition has been devalued. I vividly recall Oldham in the late 1950s, top of the league, best team in the land, but got beat by a lowly Bramley side at home when they were hot favourites not only to win the game but win the cup. That can never happen now the gap is too big.
I am totally against feeder clubs no matter what CH says about not losing our identity. You cannot avoid losing your identity, but on the other hand while other clubs go down this road we are always going to be second fiddle to those clubs who have access to SL hopefuls, cast offs etc or who farm out experienced players recovering from injuries for a week or two. Remember the Barry McDermott fiasco when he was playing for Batley was it? to get match fit again before going back into the Leeds team?
Not sure if that would be the death knell for SL clubs but I do agree that the game is tired and, though lots will disagree with me, boring. RU is far bigger, is nationwide and will continue to attract the big money from SKY and the BBC. I can however foresee a time when SKY will withdraw the funding and I cannot see many SL clubs surviving that. That said any of them that then want a return to our league would have to do so by entering at the very bottom. I'm not altogether certain that I would want them however, after all they haven't done us any favours have they?

Not being picky about your post in general but the great Oldham side were not beaten by Bramley.
They won 8-2 against them in the 3rd round of the Cup (Nestor 2 tries Ganley 1 goal), going on to lose to Hull 9-12 in the Semi final.

#80 roughyedspud

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:49 AM

and which union club stadium is'nt big enough?? the size of the stadiums in the aviva premiership are'nt a million miles away from ours in super league...2 or 3 25k stadia....a few 14k-19k..then 10k - 14k the rest....and the average attendances between the aviva premiership & super league differs by only 1500-2000....theres hardly clear water between the 2.........apart from union loses far more money than we do lol


Read your 2008 article......................


id say only leicester have "out grown" their stadium...hence why they are in the middle of rebuilding welford road....which was falling down anyway

sure the likes of northampton,Gloucester,quins have all increased the capacities of their stadia in recent years but thats mainly due to modernization of 100 year old stadia..


thats no different to leeds building the carniegie stand,hull kr expanding and building a new stand at cravan park,salford moving to a new,larger stadium...likewise st helens..or hull fc....or warrington....who have not long since expanded their already new stadium...


so i really don't see the point you're trying to make??

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