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Hull KR's Scott Taylor on his way to Wigan?


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#41 bewareshadows

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:18 PM

I can't really see any player knocking 2k off a crowd attendance. Especially one so young.

People are complaining that it's not fair. But realistically what do people want it is a sporting competition and so competition is the nature of the game. It's easy to say when your club is doing relatively well, but I fail to see any other option. The RFL can impose as many restrictions as they like but the nature of competition is that clubs will compete. On the match day and for playing staff.
Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#42 The Parksider

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

That is true but the majority of Rovers fans would not support a merged side, or at least not straight away. It would probably miss out a generation. And those that do, well, it depends if they start losing ;)


Yes I get your last point :)

The stats do show Hull's crowds grew without the HKR factor then as you say they started losing.

The problem with merger is of course you cannot make Rovers fans merged club fans just like that.

There was a time Hunslet and Leeds had sizeable fanbases either side of the river, there's now a time leeds has very big fanbase both sides of the river.

It could be more than one generation - who knows, but these things do happen, new fans do have a choice whereto go old fans do move clubs but what I couldn't swallow was the excuse a few years back that if Rovers merged with FC, all of east Hull would go over to soccer.

#43 Grebo Guru

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:07 AM

The easiest way to achieve one team for the whole of Hull would be a completely new franchise for Super League with the existing clubs put into the championship. A fair few would continue to watch their original club, in preference to the new club, me included.

Part of what makes RL so successful in Hull is the two team rivalry.

Rugby has been losing fans to soccer for 120 years. Any demise of Hull KR would mean supporters looking for another sport rather than switch sides. I know a Keighley fan who switched to soccer when they were denied promotion.

I suspect all of this talk is premature and expect Hull KR to finish higher up the table next season!

#44 The Parksider

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:18 AM

1. Part of what makes RL so successful in Hull is the two team rivalry.

2. Rugby has been losing fans to soccer for 120 years. Any demise of Hull KR would mean supporters looking for another sport rather than switch sides.

3. I suspect all of this talk is premature and expect Hull KR to finish higher up the table next season!


1. What success is this? Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds win everything.

2. Super League clubs have been gaining fans this last decade. The worry is not losing fans it's losing millions of pounds.

3. I hope so but it's a debate site we can look forward as well as back.

#45 Brigg Rover

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:43 AM

1. What success is this? Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds win everything.

2. Super League clubs have been gaining fans this last decade. The worry is not losing fans it's losing millions of pounds.

3. I hope so but it's a debate site we can look forward as well as back.


1. It depends on your version of success, the game of RL in general in Hull is doing well with 5 clubs in the top flight of the amateur game and 2 sides in the the top flight of the pro game.

2. Maybe but over the last 20 years clubs not in Super League have lost fans hand over fist, and the game below Super League is given no thought or care by anyone in authority. Also how scary is that that clubs have higher crowds and still losing so much money, some would say that is an indication we are scr*wed

3. I also think we will finish higher next year and overall don't think we have had that bad a year, the number of close games we have been involved in with a little more confidence, composure and belief we could easily have won an extra 5 or 6 games. Thats just how it goes sometimes.

Edited by Brigg Rover, 21 September 2012 - 10:44 AM.


#46 The Parksider

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:18 AM

1. It depends on your version of success, the game of RL in general in Hull is doing well with 5 clubs in the top flight of the amateur game and 2 sides in the the top flight of the pro game.

2. Maybe but over the last 20 years clubs not in Super League have lost fans hand over fist, and the game below Super League is given no thought or care by anyone in authority. Also how scary is that that clubs have higher crowds and still losing so much money, some would say that is an indication we are scr*wed

3. I also think we will finish higher next year and overall don't think we have had that bad a year, the number of close games we have been involved in with a little more confidence, composure and belief we could easily have won an extra 5 or 6 games. Thats just how it goes sometimes.


I wish you all the best sir, above that I wish your strength as a Rugby League City could be used to knock the usual suspects of their perches.....

#47 Grebo Guru

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

1. What success is this? Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds win everything.

2. Super League clubs have been gaining fans this last decade. The worry is not losing fans it's losing millions of pounds.

3. I hope so but it's a debate site we can look forward as well as back.


1. No other city in the has as many RL supporters as Hull. I call that success. If success was about winning things, let's have a four team Super League and the rest of us can stop wasting our Sunday afternoons.

2. I haven't checked the numbers, but RL as a whole hasn't gained many fans in that time. Some of the fans SL has gained aren't paying much or anything to attend, hence Bradford's situation. My other half calls herself a Wire fan. She only goes when she gets a free ticket. I know someone else who does the same at Wakefield. It's good that they are kept in touch with the game.

3. I agree with Brigg Rover on this. In my lifetime as a Hull KR fan, 10th in SL equals success, especially given the high number of narrow defeats, a new coach, players knowing they were leaving, new players, not having two halfbacks to field in most games, or any in some.

#48 The Parksider

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:53 AM

1. No other city in the has as many RL supporters as Hull. I call that success. I agree with Brigg Rover on this. In my lifetime as a Hull KR fan, 10th in SL equals success,



Then all the very best to you and enjoy......

#49 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:40 PM

So you're saying that Taylor's loss will mean HKR's gates are down by at least 2k on this years! Seriously?


Well, how do you think our gates will be affected?

He's our best young player and arguably even our best player (Dobson probably nicking that one). We've just finished 10th of 14 and his is the most notable of our (probable) off-season of asset stripping.

Are you saying we look a stronger side for next season? You think crowds will stabilise or increase as a result of this? That would be an interesting point of view and I would like to know your reasoning. Of course the hardcore of season ticket holders will queue up once again but the sizeable number of floaters will quite understandably choose to keep their hard-earned cash in their pockets or maybe even bail in favour of FC. That's just the nature of sport, I'm afraid. Players come and go but crowds will rightly lose patience when too many calibre players leave. That Hudgell has tried his damndest to keep ours and clearly isn't on some "sell to survive" EPL style agenda really shows what a top-heavy mess this league is in.

#50 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

I understand Hudge's said, 'I'm sick of players taking the #### out of the club' or words to that effect. Make of that what you will but I bet it has something to do with a player agent.

#51 Grebo Guru

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:30 PM

Well, how do you think our gates will be affected?

He's our best young player and arguably even our best player (Dobson probably nicking that one). We've just finished 10th of 14 and his is the most notable of our (probable) off-season of asset stripping.

Are you saying we look a stronger side for next season? You think crowds will stabilise or increase as a result of this? That would be an interesting point of view and I would like to know your reasoning. Of course the hardcore of season ticket holders will queue up once again but the sizeable number of floaters will quite understandably choose to keep their hard-earned cash in their pockets or maybe even bail in favour of FC. That's just the nature of sport, I'm afraid. Players come and go but crowds will rightly lose patience when too many calibre players leave. That Hudgell has tried his damndest to keep ours and clearly isn't on some "sell to survive" EPL style agenda really shows what a top-heavy mess this league is in.


Let's get this in perspective. Scott has had a good season and won us the game at Salford, but he isn't yet one of our top five players or even in the top ten front rowers I've seen in a Hull KR shirt. He's ten times better than Liam Watts though ;-)

#52 RidingPie

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

Well, how do you think our gates will be affected?

He's our best young player and arguably even our best player (Dobson probably nicking that one). We've just finished 10th of 14 and his is the most notable of our (probable) off-season of asset stripping.

Are you saying we look a stronger side for next season? You think crowds will stabilise or increase as a result of this? That would be an interesting point of view and I would like to know your reasoning. Of course the hardcore of season ticket holders will queue up once again but the sizeable number of floaters will quite understandably choose to keep their hard-earned cash in their pockets or maybe even bail in favour of FC. That's just the nature of sport, I'm afraid. Players come and go but crowds will rightly lose patience when too many calibre players leave. That Hudgell has tried his damndest to keep ours and clearly isn't on some "sell to survive" EPL style agenda really shows what a top-heavy mess this league is in.


Yes but you've said gates will be down by about a quarter. Wigan's side next year is looking far weaker than this but I doubt we'll see much of a drop. This is because Wigan do a lot of marketing. Maybe HKR need to do some more too!

#53 Grebo Guru

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:16 PM

Yes but you've said gates will be down by about a quarter. Wigan's side next year is looking far weaker than this but I doubt we'll see much of a drop. This is because Wigan do a lot of marketing. Maybe HKR need to do some more too!


If Hull KR's crowds fall at all, it won't be by 2,000, making them the poorest supported heartland club and it won't be because (if it happens) someone who has played fewer than 50 SL games is no longer at the club.

#54 Grebo Guru

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

Well, how do you think our gates will be affected?

He's our best young player and arguably even our best player (Dobson probably nicking that one). We've just finished 10th of 14 and his is the most notable of our (probable) off-season of asset stripping.

Are you saying we look a stronger side for next season? You think crowds will stabilise or increase as a result of this? That would be an interesting point of view and I would like to know your reasoning. Of course the hardcore of season ticket holders will queue up once again but the sizeable number of floaters will quite understandably choose to keep their hard-earned cash in their pockets or maybe even bail in favour of FC. That's just the nature of sport, I'm afraid. Players come and go but crowds will rightly lose patience when too many calibre players leave. That Hudgell has tried his damndest to keep ours and clearly isn't on some "sell to survive" EPL style agenda really shows what a top-heavy mess this league is in.


Hull KR fans will go over to the dark side just because one junior player leaves? Are you serious? This didnt happen when Tony Sullivan, Wayne Parker or Jon Wilkin left. I know hundreds of Hull KR fans and none of them will be doing this. I suspect I've just fallen for a wind up in even replying.

#55 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:15 AM

http://www.thisishul...tail/story.html

HULL KR chairman Neil Hudgell admits forward Scott Taylor looks certain to have played his last game for the club – despite having a year left on his deal.

The 21-year-old's future at the Robins has been in doubt for the past two months, after he and agent David Howes refused to discuss terms on a possible contract extension at Craven Park.

It saw the Hull-born prop immediately linked with a cross-city move to Hull FC, whilst recent talk has centred on a move to table-toppers Wigan.

There had even been suggestions in the past week that Taylor had now decided to stay at the Robins after considering his future, and could see out the last year of his deal.

However, Hudgell has confirmed to the Mail that will not be the case, speaking for the first time on the matter to confirm Taylor is unlikely to play for the club again.
"We have done all we can to try and tie Scott down longer term, with vastly improved terms being offered," Hudgell told the Mail.

"He refuses to negotiate at all, which is a very strong indicator to me that he doesn't want to be here any more.

"It is a disappointment after what we have invested in him, but I am not prepared to be backed into a corner on it and be dictated to by Scott and his agent.
"Inevitably I think that means he has played his last game for the club, and we will sell him to the highest bidder."

Hudgell would not be drawn over the current positions in negotiations with interested clubs.

However, some reports have suggested KR are keen to use a deal with Wigan to bring in full-back Matty Russell, who spent time on loan at Hull FC this season.
The news of Taylor's imminent departure comes just days after Hudgell stressed KR were not a 'selling club', despite having already sold stand-off Blake Green to the Warriors for next season in a £100,000 deal.

Hudgell was again keen to stress it was not a case of balancing the books, in a year which also saw Shannon McDonnell refuse a new contract, with Hull FC his expected destination, and captain Ben Galea cross the city after failing to agree new terms at the Robins.

"I am quite happy to let anyone go who doesn't want to be here, without exception," Hudgell said.

"Generally, I don't think it's a question of not competing with the big boys, it's more a question of us taking a view that we aren't going to pay over the odds for players.
"We weren't prepared to put £130,000 on the table for Shannon McDonnell, or to meet Benny Galea's demands in the week he gave us to make a decision before he first announced his retirement.

"Those were our choices, in the same way it was Ben's choice to carry on another year, and I have no problem with that.

"I don't think he was very comfortable with the idea of retiring at the end of the year, and so I wasn't at all surprised he decided to go round again.

"He's a player at the end of the day, and that's what he wants to carry on doing."

#56 Father Ted

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:11 AM

Rumours on RLFans Wigan board that Taylor has signed for the Warriors.
True or not I don't know but if it is then Wigan have made a very good signing.
Quality young forward who will join a young pack.
Also rumours that Matty Russell has signed for Gold Coast Titans.

#57 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:41 AM

Good stuff from "Hudge" there. My obvious concerns about whether many of our SL sides are even in the same ballpark player retention and acquisition wise as others notwithstanding, it does sound like HKR still intend to try to compete next year and this buoys me as a fan.

Russell was the best player on the pitch in the Etihad derby and if we could sign him as part of the deal that might prove to be a coup. Would have to be permanent though to (part) restore my faith in the league – everyone here knows my views on loan signings. And my instinct tells me we’ll end up taking him on loan somehow.

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 27 September 2012 - 11:41 AM.


#58 RidingPie

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:46 AM

Good stuff from "Hudge" there. My obvious concerns about whether many of our SL sides are even in the same ballpark player retention and acquisition wise as others notwithstanding, it does sound like HKR still intend to try to compete next year and this buoys me as a fan.


So does this mean you are lowering your estimate of a 2k crowd drop next year if he signs for Wigan?

#59 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

There are surely many with the same opinion as you can pick out any one of many many clubs to find people of the same opinion? Why do only 2,000 go to Halifax when 6,000 used to go? Where are the 4,000 Oldham fans nowadays? Where did 7,500 Rovers fans go when they dropped to the second division?? Where did thousands of Hull Boulevard fans go when they stopped winning in the eighties???

Thousands have left the game, thousands have come in. It's wishful thinking to believe that every fan our clubs attract will suddenly stand up, not be defeatist and carry on supporting their club when it starts losing.

I never suggested anything of he sort, so not sure what the point of this whe bit was? Who are you arguing against?
If you're going to be defeatist, that's your own choice. But don't expect people to have to agree with that view. If everyone had the same defeatist attitude, there'd be no progression in anything.

I do not see how Keeny is spreading doom and gloom?? He's discussing the halting of investment at Hull KR and the start of the effect of that, which is fair enough to do.

It is. And it's fair enough for me to have an opinion on it as well, and also an opinion on his opinion.

He has also offered on a positive note to carry on supporting Rovers if they went back to the Championship and is one of the very few fans who WOULD support a Hull merger and don the red/black/white. If the other 8,499 HKR fans would do the same you'd have 20,000 crowds at the KC every match.

So you've just assumed that the vast majority of Hull FC fans would be fine with a merger as well? Great argument.

I think with respect your attack is unjustified.

To call my post "an attack" is unjustified. I've justified everything I've said in each post I've made on the matter.

Keeny also discusses how if Superleague could find a way to have all the clubs competing, there may be less fans walking away from the lower SL clubs. That's a positive thought for me......

But he hasn't actually offered a solution, so it's just a whinge. I think we'd all like that to happen, but saying it just isn't enough.

If you want to see an attack, look on the other topic and the labelling that's been applied to me.
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#60 Roy Boy

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

I understand Hudge's said, 'I'm sick of players taking the #### out of the club' or words to that effect. Make of that what you will but I bet it has something to do with a player agent.


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