79 replies to this topic

[wallawalla]

SWINTON LIONS
SUPPORTERS GENERAL MEETING

AT SWINTON BRITISH LEGION,
CHEETHAM ROAD.
THURSDAY 27th SEPTEMBER 2012
7:30pm START

[marshy1]

Lets hope it is some good news.

[Bryce]

Don't be so positive Alan!

It would be nice to hear some good news. And of course, to see what Steve Mac and the players think of the new partnership with Warrington.

[marshy1]

Sorry Bryce I will return to doom and gloom this instance.

[duffymoon]

I just hope it's something definitive regarding Agecroft and not that the situation is ongoing! it's my 50th birthday 5 days after the meeting so some good news would start the celebrations very nicely.Please feel free to buy me a birthday drink at the meeting!

[PaulT]

I'm really hoping there is some good news. At the last match of the season they said "hopefully" they can arrange a meeting. Hopefully they used the word "hopefully" because they were waiting for the green light.

[PhillH]

There seems to be a misconception that Swinton Lions can somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat and announce that development of the Agecroft site has got the go-ahead.

In truth there cannot be any "green light" until the due process of planning approval has been completed. This process cannot nowadays be done in smoke-filled rooms behind closed doors, even if the council is positively minded to the proposal. The law includes a requirement for unavoidable public consultation - so when a planning application is made, we will hear about it.

At best we can hope for confirmation of the home venue for 2013 and an announcement that a planning application either has been made immediately before the meeting, or is imminent.

Once that planning application finally goes in, we ought to organise a campaign to get positive comments fed in - perhaps a standard letter to the planning officer, to which people can just add their address and signature. Hopefully people from right across the RL community will be willing to spend a couple of minutes doing something worthwhile to help the cause.

[duffymoon]

We've had the planning application imminent before Phil,we need something tangible ASAP,

[marshy1]

Phil just what would please you.?

[Blue Monkey]

SWINTON LIONS
SUPPORTERS GENERAL MEETING

AT SWINTON BRITISH LEGION,
CHEETHAM ROAD.
THURSDAY 27th SEPTEMBER 2012
7:30pm START

Phew! I was beginning to think it wasn't going to take place.

Oh! wouldn't it be really nice if it was finally GOOD news about a certain project down in the Irwell valley?

[Barnie]

Phil just what would please you.?

Marshy, the guy would moan if he was given the moon on a stick. Phils ultimate outcome would be a meeting that leaves a few things in the air. that way he can compose a scathing diatribe that will upset and bore people in equal measures. lol

[PhillH]

Phil just what would please you.?

I suspect many people will feel the same way as duffymoon.

We've had a number of these meetings over the last 6 years or so where the message on Agecroft has been "work is ongoing behind the scenes and something tangible is going to happen.... by Christmas / in the next month / in the next couple of weeks".

So I feel that a lot of people will be hoping to hear that truly tangible progress is finally being made - the starting point for that has to be a planning application submitted.

We know no planning application has been made yet, as when it does go in it will be public knowledge and attract media interest. So John cannot at this point say that the project has got the "green light", but what he might be able to say is that the first tangible element of the project has been progressed.

Further to that it would be of huge benefit if the club were to take a leaf out of Keith Freer's & Trevor Barton's book and adopt a more open approach to the project, as this would enable not only Swinton Lions supporters but also other interested groups from across the community to engage with it. There is major potential for the local education providers to be very useful allies, to both support the passage of the planning application(s) through the variad committees etc, also to contribute to usage and the economics of it. To ensure the final facility is so designed and organised to allow it to be used to best effect when delivered - the earlier these other organisations are got on board the better.

It simply isn't in John's gift to stand up before an audience prior to the process of planning approval even having started and say that the development has got the "green light". Our great democracy doesn't work like that. People's expectations on that need to be realistic.

Wind back a year and I was the one being slated on here for being off message and predicting Agecroft wouldn't be ready by the start of the 2012 season..... deja vu!

Edited by PhillH, 20 September 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[PhillH]

Marshy, the guy would moan if he was given the moon on a stick. Phils ultimate outcome would be a meeting that leaves a few things in the air. that way he can compose a scathing diatribe that will upset and bore people in equal measures. lol

Moon on a stick?? What would be the point in that?? It wouldn't even fit in the shed.

[marshy1]

Phil you will no doubt be aware that planning isn't the only important aspect required in the process of delivering a stadium, particularly in this day and age.
Indeed Belle Vue have been trying to build a new stadium now for the last 4 years, due to be open for next season and guess what not a brick or cinder has been laid. Every so often their management advise of having to wait for certain bodies or committees and each week the talk on the terrace is that they wil remain at the dog track. I know this because I attend, but I also know Chris Morton one of the directors and I trust what he has told me, they will get their stadium.
The point is sometimes you cannot just open up in these matters and you simply have to trust individuals, better to wait and see till next Thursday than condemn them on here.

[PhillH]

Phil you will no doubt be aware that planning isn't the only important aspect required in the process of delivering a stadium, particularly in this day and age.
Indeed Belle Vue have been trying to build a new stadium now for the last 4 years, due to be open for next season and guess what not a brick or cinder has been laid. Every so often their management advise of having to wait for certain bodies or committees and each week the talk on the terrace is that they wil remain at the dog track. I know this because I attend, but I also know Chris Morton one of the directors and I trust what he has told me, they will get their stadium.
The point is sometimes you cannot just open up in these matters and you simply have to trust individuals, better to wait and see till next Thursday than condemn them on here.

Perhaps Belle Vue should also take a leaf out of Leigh's book.

2 purposes for benchmarking:

1.) Identification of good practice to replicate

2.) Identification of poor/ineffective practice, to avoid

What shouldn't happen is identification of poor/ineffective practice elsewhere to try and justify equally poor/ineffective practice at home. If that's not a negative mindset, I don't know what is.

[greengrass]

I am looking forward to the meeting and going with a positive approach. Could be the start of coming home on Thursday, if we are coming home the Joey Holt's on top road better get filling there cellar up on a Sunday ha ha. Oh yeah the Newmarket is open from half ten in the morning on Sundays could be the meeting point he he come on you lions

[marshy1]

Perhaps Belle Vue should also take a leaf out of Leigh's book.

2 purposes for benchmarking:

1.) Identification of good practice to replicate

2.) Identification of poor/ineffective practice, to avoid

What shouldn't happen is identification of poor/ineffective practice elsewhere to try and justify equally poor/ineffective practice at home. If that's not a negative mindset, I don't know what is.

No Phil it is not being negative it is pointing out to you that these situations arise when dealing with committes, councils etc.
You refer to Leigh as the bench mark what you seem to be failing to mention is that Leigh had little input into that ground, Wigan council built and own it that in itself makes things a whole lot easier since you have the people you need to speak to on hand and of course an almost open cheque book to allow you to deliver. At least Swinton along with the partners involved wil own Agecroft as will Belle Vue.

Edited by marshy1, 20 September 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[PhillH]

No Phil it is not being negative it is pointing out to you that these situations arise when dealing with committes, councils etc.
You refer to Leigh as the bench mark what you seem to be failing to mention is that Leigh had little input into that ground, Wigan council built and own it that in itself makes things a whole lot easier since you have the people you need to speak to on hand and of course an almost open cheque book to allow you to deliver. At least Swinton along with the partners involved wil own Agecroft as will Belle Vue.

There is a due process to be completed, you benchmark to identify what approach to that process generally works best. So the true point is that I put it to you - evidence from other stadium development projects shows adopting a strategy of openness beats doing things as a closed shop.

Your statment that "Leigh had little input to that ground" has no basis in fact. There was extensive consultation, not just for design of the stadium but also the other neighbouring facilities at LSV. There wasn't even going to be a swimming pool initially, that changed when the people of Leigh had their say on the proposals. The driving force throughout was the Leigh Sports Partnership chaired by Trevor Barton, chairman of Leigh Miners ARLFC and current CEO of the Centurions, and the Partnership contained representatives from all the town's amateur sports clubs and education providers.

The stadium design was expressly done to meet Super League criteria and provide the Centurions with a facility that could support them in that end. The Leigh supporters were heavily consulted, that's why behind the posts at one end has a standing area - again that wasn't in the original design.

Funding of Leigh Sports Village had 3 main elements; aggregation, cross-subsidising development and lastly grants. The ownership is with LSV Co, not the Council. Yes, Wigan Borough Council had been proactively involved throughout, that is no bad thing. Much of the land involved was council owned and their involvement was absolutely necessary to ensure grant revenue was maximised, the route through the planning process was efficient and the final facilities were integrated into a proper strategy for future education, health and sports development purposes in the area as a whole.

You cannot achieve all that without working in partnership with people, and that is exactly what Trevor Barton facilitated every step of the way. He absolutely worked like a trojan at it, but what a great result and legacy.

You have previously made this claim that Swinton Lions will in some way own the stadium and upon challenge had to concede the statement was foundationless. So do you now have any fresh evidence to support this claim, since the last time it was discussed? If not, the default position has to be the one John Kidd gave at last year's meeting when in response to a direct question he stated the stadium would be owned by a Stadium Management company. As we have previously debated, this has an important advantage that the ground will not be an asset of the club, therefore should the club encounter financial strife the ground could not be sold to repay debts as happened with Station Road.

It is community assets that will be sold to pay for the ground. All the more reason why the community should have a say in what is done.

Why do you have this phobia about Council involvement? Without the Council being prepared to at least put some land into the pot there is no possible way a stadium can ever get built. Council involvement is inevitable. The key is to get the right sort of Council involvement! Has Wigan Borough Council's involvement at LSV been in any way negative?

[RIGGY]

Why don't we just wait and see what the club has got to say instead of droning on about the same thing all the time.



Riggy

[mark richardson]

Trevor Bartons role with the lsv WAS completely different from john kidds.
Trevor Barton was the chair of the Leigh sports project. Not the club. He could be open. He could speak to the fans and everyone else. That was his job.
He could also afford to do it as a volunteer.
We have not got that luxury or it would appear so.

Trevor Barton became chief executive at Leigh a year ago when the club almost went bump.
He's done a great job since. He's a great bloke. As is his son whom I know well.

The role he has had really only compares with john kidds since September 2011.
To compare their roles in the noughties is disingenuous.

To coin a phrase from you Phil if all you say is correct, and I'm sure it is as you appear an expert in a myriad of fields, "what's the point" of the meeting on Thursday? We won't hear that the ground will start to be built for another twelve months at least.

Then again maybe the very thing that you have been calling for is happening.
The club are meeting in Swinton, in the community we wish to engage to tell the fans what is going on.

We can't ask for something, be given it and still complain.
Or maybe we can.

Edited by mark richardson, 20 September 2012 - 12:48 PM.