79 replies to this topic

[mark richardson]

You've seen the photos Alan...I'm still sore

[marshy1]

Good to see some positive responses on here as usual!!!!!!!
Perhaps the Club should just carry on not telling us anything at all until the rampant lion flag is raised at the top of the stand at Agecroft!

Come on guys....if you were at the meeting last night you will have seen how positive everything was. Granted that we've heard some of it before and it could all still go knockers up but at least it wasn't JK saying "That's it I'm off!"

...and if you filled in your details on the forms available last night it was said that you will be sent information regarding any news. If you weren't there then I presume you can send your e-mail address etc through to the Club at info@swintonlionsrlc.co.uk and they'll add you to the list.

Pau,l I think that e-mail address will bounce them back....it seems that the correct one is swintonlions@hotmail.co.uk..... so iIhave just been informed.

[Paul Davidson]

Cheers Alan. I'll try and change my original post. I just went off the email address on the website - that'll teach me!
Something should be done about that website....... blah, blah, blah

[GLENNGARY]

It didn,t take long for the bile to be flowing from messors Philh and Mr caine or Flotsum and Jetsum as they should be called. there is never any positivity from either of you only negitivity. I don't believe either of you were at the meeting to question John Kidd yet you come on this site gloating about how clever you both are and how you are right and everyone is wrong. I honestly believe you want this project to fail so you can walk around with a smirk on your faces saying i told you so.I went to the meeting and i fired questions at JK to which I got satisfactory answers. I can't wait for you to fall flat on you faces and when you do I expect an apology to all the GENUINE Swinton fans that you have mocked for to long.

[Blue Monkey]

Went past Wardley last week, now a building site with a new school going up..... at least the site will see some positive use for the first time in quite a while, but without question they ought to be building a new stadium!!

Yes, Wardley was the original choice to be the site for the new stadium, but things changed long ago now, and, for better or worse, 'home' will Agecroft.

Wardley would have been, without doubt, a better location for the Lions' new home because it was on the A6, a major bus route (7 days a week - 36 and 37) and only minutes’ walk from Moorside station and the town centre. Close too would have been the East Lancs Road and the M-way network. Easy access by bus/car from both the town centre and beyond one way, and Walkden and Little Hulton the other way.
The same cannot at present be said about the Agecroft location due to its lack of buses on Sundays (484) and a general atmosphere of semi-remoteness lying, as it does, between the A666 (Bolton Road) and the A56 (Prestwich) without any kind of public amenities whatsoever apart from the one single shop on Agecroft Road opposite the junction with Lumns Lane. At least in recent years the residential population of the district has noticeably risen (not counting those citizens currently "at Her Majesty's pleasure") with new housing estates on the “stadium side” of Agecroft Road to add to the long established housing stock on the opposite side, i.e. the “Ds” estate etc.
I know the stadium will have more than adequate bars etc, but it's a bit strange to know that the nearest actual pub will be the Plough Inn on Rainsough Brow across the river in Prestwich (Bury Met).
Regarding public transport, it's a pity there isn't a small and convenient railway station where the M/cr-Bolton line crosses under the road.
But! Not to worry eh? I felt last night's fans' meeting gave off plenty “good vibes” about Agecroft, and, I for one, eagerly look forward to the not too distant future when the first turf is lifted and we can all celebrate the end of our overlong period in RL’s wilderness.

[Blue Monkey]

Went past Wardley last week, now a building site with a new school going up..... at least the site will see some positive use for the first time in quite a while, but without question they ought to be building a new stadium!!

Yes, Wardley was the original choice to be the site for the new stadium, but things changed long ago now, and, for better or worse, 'home' will Agecroft.

Wardley would have been, without doubt, a better location for the Lions' new home because it was on the A6, a major bus route (7 days a week - 36 and 37) and only minutes’ walk from Moorside station and the town centre. Close too would have been the East Lancs Road and the M-way network. Easy access by bus/car from both the town centre and beyond one way, and Walkden and Little Hulton the other way.
The same cannot at present be said about the Agecroft location due to its lack of buses on Sundays (484) and a general atmosphere of semi-remoteness lying, as it does, between the A666 (Bolton Road) and the A56 (Prestwich) without any kind of public amenities whatsoever apart from the one single shop on Agecroft Road opposite the junction with Lumns Lane. At least in recent years the residential population of the district has noticeably risen (not counting those citizens currently "at Her Majesty's pleasure") with new housing estates on the “stadium side” of Agecroft Road to add to the long established housing stock on the opposite side, i.e. the “Ds” estate etc.
I know the stadium will have more than adequate bars etc, but it's a bit strange to know that the nearest actual pub will be the Plough Inn on Rainsough Brow across the river in Prestwich (Bury Met).
Regarding public transport, it's a pity there isn't a small and convenient railway station where the M/cr-Bolton line crosses under the road.
But! Not to worry eh? I felt last night's fans' meeting gave off plenty “good vibes” about Agecroft, and, I for one, eagerly look forward to the not too distant future when the first turf is lifted and we can all celebrate the end of our overlong period in RL’s wilderness.

[pc6090]

Sadly the plough Inn looks like it's closed. The nearest pub is now probably the henry boddington

[lionsfanusa]

Yes, Wardley was the original choice to be the site for the new stadium, but things changed long ago now, and, for better or worse, 'home' will Agecroft.

Wardley would have been, without doubt, a better location for the Lions' new home because it was on the A6, a major bus route (7 days a week - 36 and 37) and only minutes’ walk from Moorside station and the town centre. Close too would have been the East Lancs Road and the M-way network. Easy access by bus/car from both the town centre and beyond one way, and Walkden and Little Hulton the other way.
The same cannot at present be said about the Agecroft location due to its lack of buses on Sundays (484) and a general atmosphere of semi-remoteness lying, as it does, between the A666 (Bolton Road) and the A56 (Prestwich) without any kind of public amenities whatsoever apart from the one single shop on Agecroft Road opposite the junction with Lumns Lane. At least in recent years the residential population of the district has noticeably risen (not counting those citizens currently "at Her Majesty's pleasure") with new housing estates on the “stadium side” of Agecroft Road to add to the long established housing stock on the opposite side, i.e. the “Ds” estate etc.
I know the stadium will have more than adequate bars etc, but it's a bit strange to know that the nearest actual pub will be the Plough Inn on Rainsough Brow across the river in Prestwich (Bury Met).
Regarding public transport, it's a pity there isn't a small and convenient railway station where the M/cr-Bolton line crosses under the road.
But! Not to worry eh? I felt last night's fans' meeting gave off plenty “good vibes” about Agecroft, and, I for one, eagerly look forward to the not too distant future when the first turf is lifted and we can all celebrate the end of our overlong period in RL’s wilderness.

It may be 3,500 miles from Vermont but it's walking distance from my sister's house! No further than Station Road was.
Can't wait to be at the opening match!

[PhillH]

It didn,t take long for the bile to be flowing from messors Philh and Mr caine or Flotsum and Jetsum as they should be called. there is never any positivity from either of you only negitivity. I don't believe either of you were at the meeting to question John Kidd yet you come on this site gloating about how clever you both are and how you are right and everyone is wrong. I honestly believe you want this project to fail so you can walk around with a smirk on your faces saying i told you so.I went to the meeting and i fired questions at JK to which I got satisfactory answers. I can't wait for you to fall flat on you faces and when you do I expect an apology to all the GENUINE Swinton fans that you have mocked for to long.

Wrong on several counts. Very few things in life would give greater pleasure than to see the Lions rehoused in a fit-for-purpose, good quality and economically sound venue back in M27. This is why at times I've dedicated a significant amount of time and effort into campaigning for just that on a voluntary basis.

Frustration at 6 years of promises with no real delivery should not be confused with "mocking true supporters". Given its nomadic existance, identity crisis and limited success the club is very lucky indeed to have sufficient "true supporters" remaining to still have any future at all. My concern is that the exile won't have too much longer to run before that will cease to be the case and total reliance on the financial backing of a sugar daddy becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. We are already at 20 years and counting. But surely we should think of "true supporters" as more than sycophants so beloved of whomever holds the office of chairman that they never question, even when the same promise has now been made every year since 2006 with no evidence of delivery beyond a letter from the council? Should we all have believed Malcolm White when he talked about returning to the borough within 4 years, back in 1992?

Its not as though the club has reached the position its in today without going through major mismanagement. Unquestioning support tends to help those who do damage.

So where do we draw the line? 2015? 2020? Will you be there in 2025 and applauding as John takes to the stage on his zimmer frame and announces once more that there will be a meeting in another 3 or 4 weeks and after that something tangible will happen?

We NEED true delivery, and quickly. John needs to be honest with people about the true state of progress. If "behind the scenes" everything is moving very slowly, say so. Be willing to change tactics in order to influence the council more effectively. Give people the chance to use their positive vibes to actually do stuff that will help press the project forwards.

Yes I couldn't make this latest meeting, the work that pays me a wage required that I was in Dorset so it was impossible. But I can rattle off a very long list of meetings I have attended with many key people over a number of years at which the case for Swinton Lions coming back home has been passionately championed, and I never noticed you at any of those. Most recently a chat with the Mayor, in which it was clear the club has not really connected with him as yet. A lot remains to be done!

[PhillH]

Yes, Wardley was the original choice to be the site for the new stadium, but things changed long ago now, and, for better or worse, 'home' will Agecroft.

Wardley would have been, without doubt, a better location for the Lions' new home because it was on the A6, a major bus route (7 days a week - 36 and 37) and only minutes’ walk from Moorside station and the town centre. Close too would have been the East Lancs Road and the M-way network. Easy access by bus/car from both the town centre and beyond one way, and Walkden and Little Hulton the other way.
The same cannot at present be said about the Agecroft location due to its lack of buses on Sundays (484) and a general atmosphere of semi-remoteness lying, as it does, between the A666 (Bolton Road) and the A56 (Prestwich) without any kind of public amenities whatsoever apart from the one single shop on Agecroft Road opposite the junction with Lumns Lane. At least in recent years the residential population of the district has noticeably risen (not counting those citizens currently "at Her Majesty's pleasure") with new housing estates on the “stadium side” of Agecroft Road to add to the long established housing stock on the opposite side, i.e. the “Ds” estate etc.
I know the stadium will have more than adequate bars etc, but it's a bit strange to know that the nearest actual pub will be the Plough Inn on Rainsough Brow across the river in Prestwich (Bury Met).
Regarding public transport, it's a pity there isn't a small and convenient railway station where the M/cr-Bolton line crosses under the road.
But! Not to worry eh? I felt last night's fans' meeting gave off plenty “good vibes” about Agecroft, and, I for one, eagerly look forward to the not too distant future when the first turf is lifted and we can all celebrate the end of our overlong period in RL’s wilderness.

Wardley also has the prime advantage of being much bigger - nowhere near as easy to fit everything in at Agecroft, but here's hoping. I love the "great outdoors", but the rules surrounding green belt status of the Wardley site are an ass.

[mark richardson]

Wrong on several counts. Very few things in life would give greater pleasure than to see the Lions rehoused in a fit-for-purpose, good quality and economically sound venue back in M27. This is why at times I've dedicated a significant amount of time and effort into campaigning for just that on a voluntary basis.

Frustration at 6 years of promises with no real delivery should not be confused with "mocking true supporters". Given its nomadic existance, identity crisis and limited success the club is very lucky indeed to have sufficient "true supporters" remaining to still have any future at all. My concern is that the exile won't have too much longer to run before that will cease to be the case and total reliance on the financial backing of a sugar daddy becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. We are already at 20 years and counting. But surely we should think of "true supporters" as more than sycophants so beloved of whomever holds the office of chairman that they never question, even when the same promise has now been made every year since 2006 with no evidence of delivery beyond a letter from the council? Should we all have believed Malcolm White when he talked about returning to the borough within 4 years, back in 1992?

Its not as though the club has reached the position its in today without going through major mismanagement. Unquestioning support tends to help those who do damage.

So where do we draw the line? 2015? 2020? Will you be there in 2025 and applauding as John takes to the stage on his zimmer frame and announces once more that there will be a meeting in another 3 or 4 weeks and after that something tangible will happen?

We NEED true delivery, and quickly. John needs to be honest with people about the true state of progress. If "behind the scenes" everything is moving very slowly, say so. Be willing to change tactics in order to influence the council more effectively. Give people the chance to use their positive vibes to actually do stuff that will help press the project forwards.

Yes I couldn't make this latest meeting, the work that pays me a wage required that I was in Dorset so it was impossible. But I can rattle off a very long list of meetings I have attended with many key people over a number of years at which the case for Swinton Lions coming back home has been passionately championed, and I never noticed you at any of those. Most recently a chat with the Mayor, in which it was clear the club has not really connected with him as yet. A lot remains to be done!

A simple no would have sufficed for me.
I chatted with the head of the council last year who was fully aware of everything and was positive about the outcome .
Calling people naive and sycophantic is perhaps a little rude.

[Bryce]

Phil, I'm pretty confident that the rules surrounding green belt sites have been changed since the tories came in, and it's now much easier than it was to build on these sites.

[LOYALION]

Who wears green belts these days anyway?

[PhillH]

Phil, I'm pretty confident that the rules surrounding green belt sites have been changed since the tories came in, and it's now much easier than it was to build on these sites.

Yes central government policy has been changed to make it easier to build in the green belt (with particular reference to sports facilities, perhaps ironically), but that change has not been bought into at local level by Salford City Council.

The practical effect locally so far has been a few proposals for things in Chat Moss that the Council had initially turned down, but developers/land owners can now make an appeal to "higher powers" (i.e. Eric Pickles) with a good chance that the Council's decision will be overturned by Westminster. There's a couple of examples recently where Pickles has turned Salford City Council's initial "red light" into a "green light", causing much angst at Swinton Civic Centre.

In the case of the Wardley site, it was declared as green belt other than the footprint that was covered by the original school buildings. So stay within that footprint and you can build on it, but stray a yard further west and the law says you have to satisfy a test that there is no other site available that can feasibly house the needed development. But in reality in Salford City Council's eyes its virtually a "no no", particularly given the party political nature of how things have developed in the relationship with the Westminster government. No matter that the whole of the site was cordoned off, derelict, added nothing to public amenity for many years and had immense potential as a multi-use sporting facility.

The changes to policy at Westminster would potentially have been useful to the cause of building a new stadium at Wardley, if the site had been in private hands and the landowner been prepared to drive through the process of Salford City Council initially refusing planning permission but getting Westminster to overturn that on appeal.

In the event, ownership of the land is split between the Education Authority and the Council itself. Therein if the Council is not prepared to make an exception against its own green belt policy on its own land, the question cannot get as far as Westminster where the policy towards development is curently more lenient.

A key point in all this is whether there is another site available that can feasibly house a stadium development. This stressed the importance of the club truly knowing that Agecroft was a workable solution, in terms of size, location, ability to raise the needed revenue to fund development. Be sold a pup and other opportunites dwindle away. Word on the street is that if it does go ahead, the funding for Agecroft will need to be raised via aggregation - surely it would've been better to have consolidated on the one site with a more accessible position and greater scope, not just for the Lions' purposes but also for the benefit of sports participation generally?

By the way, the 3 month timescale that you say John quoted at the meeting - it comes straight out of planning guidance as an indicative timescale for outline planning permission to be granted - nothing specific to Agecroft in that.

[mark richardson]

We could have built the ground on beech farm,moorside, Wardley industrial estate or indeed Worsley green.
What's the point in all this? Are we no longer behind agecroft?

[Bryce]

I'm all for Agecroft. Just someone brought up the fact that it's not in the best area for transport. Mind you, you can still walk it from Swinton Station and Clifton Junction (although I'm not even sure there's any stoppers on a sunday at Clifton!).

If you've driven from Yorkshire, I'm pretty sure another 5 mins on your journey won't affect you too much.

[greengrass]

Well I was at the meeting and it was the make or break for me in terms of carrying on supporting the lions. I was very impressed with what John Kidd say and I firmly believe that our ground will be commence building in the new year. Also in terms of the squad I believe we have signed up all the right players and Steve Mc said he is looking at couple of props which will complete the squad.

I am also very happy with the re-signing of Darren Hawkyard I am very suprised that none of the top 4 have come sniffing around him. I also had a chat with the warrington director about the partnership and what it would bring to our club and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

Since we have signed Steve Mc as our coach I have always said he is on the one best managers outside super league and listening to him on Thursday I stand by this fact, the comments he came out with I thought well said and come from a man who knows what he is doing. He will only get better to under the guidance from Tony Smith.

Following the meeting I am a very happy lions fan and really looking forward to the new season (see Alan I can be happy ha ha)

[RIGGY]

Well said Greengrass

Wish people would stop sticking the knife in and get behind the club.

Looking forward to next season already

Riggy

[mark richardson]

Hear hear. We've had a whole lot of new stuff thrown on here just to be awkward in my opinion.
Getting behind agecroft is imperative and all the other stuff is an unnecessary and undeserved distraction.

[class of 63]

Hear hear again....everything I heard at the meeting from John,Steve, Paul and the Warrington director was positive and now is the time for us all to back the club in whatever way we can....being positive about Agecroft is one way of doing it.