21 replies to this topic

[Wolford6]

The mortgage on my house was previously held by the Bank of Ireland and was linked to three endowment policies. About two years ago, following the financial crisis, the BoI wrote to me saying that the mortgage had been transferred to the Mortgage Works Plc. This was presented as a fait accompli and I don't think that I had any choice in the matter..

The final endowment policy matured this month so, yesterday, I paid off my mortgage to the Mortgage Works by electronic transfer from my HSBC account.
In addition: -

Yesterday:
- I faxed a covering letter and HSBC data-transfer slip to Mortgage Works ... because the company won't accept e-mails or engage in e-correspondence with its clients
- posted hard copies of said documents

Today:
- I rang Mortgage Works to see if it could confirm that the money had been transferred - it's system had not reieved the information (in fairness, HSBC said that this was quite common)
- Mortgage Works told me to ring again on Monday, to see if it had arrived (five days and we are talking about a fair few thousand pounds)
- I asked how Mortgage Works would return the deeds for my house, only to be told that the company had shredded them 'to save storage space' and that I would have to contact the UK Land Registry and apply for an electronic copy.

It should also be pointed out that this company has a postal address in Skipton, a bank in Macclesfield and a response team in Scotland.

My Opinion: -
- The balance of wealth in my property was heavily in my favour; I would guess that the residual mortgage represented less than 20% of its market value. How can the Mortgage Works hold the right to destroy my deeds without, as far as I can recall, consultation?
- Why wasn't I sent a form to confirm whether I agreed to the deeds being destroyed and/or whether I wanted the chance to hold my deeds?
- Why hasn't the Mortgage Works made an electronic copy of my deeds that it can provide to me?
- If you are thinking of taking out a mortgage with the Mortgage Works Plc, insist on them not destroying the deeds to your house. In fact contact whichever mortgage company you are with and make the same request.
- I would advise any friend of mine not to touch this company at all.








(NB: HSBC is rubbish as well; it forces you to sign up for telephone banking or else you can't ring your own branch ... I have had to make a special trip today to verify that the money has been transferred)

Edited by Wolford6, 20 September 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[Johnoco]

I used to have a mortgage with HSBC and when I changed providers, they sent me all the deeds in the post in just a regular envelope and was told 'you sort it out'. It could have gone anywhere. I thought they were ###### then and changed my bank soon after.

[gingerjon]

Hard copies of deeds are unimportant.

[gazza77]

The mortgage on my house was previously held by the Bank of Ireland and was linked to three endowment policies. About two years ago, following the financial crisis, the BoI wrote to me saying that the mortgage had been transferred to the Mortgage Works Plc. This was presented as a fait accompli and I don't think that I had any choice in the matter..

The final endowment policy matured this month so, yesterday, I paid off my mortgage to the Mortgage Works by electronic transfer from my HSBC account.
In addition: -

Yesterday:
- I faxed a covering letter and HSBC data-transfer slip to Mortgage Works ... because the company won't accept e-mails or engage in e-correspondence with its clients
- posted hard copies of said documents

Today:
- I rang Mortgage Works to see if it could confirm that the money had been transferred - it's system had not reieved the information (in fairness, HSBC said that this was quite common)
- Mortgage Works told me to ring again on Monday, to see if it had arrived (five days and we are talking about a fair few thousand pounds)
- I asked how Mortgage Works would return the deeds for my house, only to be told that the company had shredded them 'to save storage space' and that I would have to contact the UK Land Registry and apply for an electronic copy.

It should also be pointed out that this company has a postal address in Skipton, a bank in Macclesfield and a response team in Scotland.

My Opinion: -
- The balance of wealth in my property was heavily in my favour; I would guess that the residual mortgage represented less than 20% of its market value. How can the Mortgage Works hold the right to destroy my deeds without, as far as I can recall, consultation?
- Why wasn't I sent a form to confirm whether I agreed to the deeds being destroyed and/or whether I wanted the chance to hold my deeds?
- Why hasn't the Mortgage Works made an electronic copy of my deeds that it can provide to me?
- If you are thinking of taking out a mortgage with the Mortgage Works Plc, insist on them not destroying the deeds to your house. In fact contact whichever mortgage company you are with and make the same request.
- I would advise any friend of mine not to touch this company at all.








(NB: HSBC is rubbish as well; it forces you to sign up for telephone banking or else you can't ring your own branch ... I have had to make a special trip today to verify that the money has been transferred)

I had a major barny with a mortgage advisor a few years ago, who'd sold my now wife a self-certified mortgage with Amber Homeloans, despite her being in full time employment in an NHS hospital finance department.

Excusing how shoddy Amber themselves were to deal with, the issue arose when we decided to buy together, and to do this, we planned to move her mortgage to the new property. We completed the paperwork as requested by Amber, only to find that despite the £5k a year pay increase she'd had since her original application, and the 2 years of repayments, the amount to transfer was now being deemed as "unaffordable". To cut a long story short, it transpired that the application the advisor had subitted showed her income as being around £30k pa, rather than the £20k she was actually earning, as the mortgage advisor thought that this best described her "potential future earnings". Whilst the repayments were obviously affordable, it does kind of demonstrate the flawed thinking that lead to the current economic situatuation.

Edited by gazza77, 21 September 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[Saint Billinge]

I had a major barny with a mortgage advisor a few years ago, who'd sold my now wife a self-certified mortgage with Amber Homeloans, despite her being in full time employment in an NHS hospital finance department.

Excusing how shoddy Amber themselves were to deal with, the issue arose when we decided to buy together, and to do this, we planned to move her mortgage to the new property. We completed the paperwork as requested by Amber, only to find that despite the £5k a year pay increase she'd had since her original application, and the 2 years of repayments, the amount to transfer was now being deemed as "unaffordable". To cut a long story short, it transpired that the application the advisor had subitted showed her income as being around £30k pa, rather than the £20k she was actually earning, as the mortgage advisor thought that this best described her "potential future earnings". Whilst the repayments were obviously affordable, it does kind of demonstrate the flawed thinking that lead to the current economic situatuation.

Submitting false statements of earnings by "dodgy advisers" became a major scandal.

Edited by Saint Billinge, 21 September 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[marklaspalmas]

Whilst the repayments were obviously affordable, it does kind of demonstrate the flawed thinking that lead to the current economic situatuation.

Quite. But I would have thought that the two years of repayments with no problems would have worked in her favour. Unless during the transfer you were looking to increase the mortagage.

[gazza77]

Submitting false statements of earnings by "dodgy advisers" of became a major scandal.

Did it? When did that happen?

Quite. But I would have thought that the two years of repayments with no problems would have worked in her favour. Unless during the transfer you were looking to increase the mortagage.

Nope, we were simply transferring the balance over to a different policy. We ended up paying £5k off the mortgage to get it down the level that they were prepared to lend. For different reasons, Amber were just as bad to deal with as the original mortgage advisor, who I had a paddy with over the issue, but that's another story for another day.

[marklaspalmas]

Nope, we were simply transferring the balance over to a different policy. We ended up paying £5k off the mortgage to get it down the level that they were prepared to lend. For different reasons, Amber were just as bad to deal with as the original mortgage advisor, who I had a paddy with over the issue, but that's another story for another day.

How inflexible.

Still, we could say that they are learning from their mistakes, no?

[gazza77]

How inflexible.

Still, we could say that they are learning from their mistakes, no?

They certainly are.

Amber withdrew from the lending market in April 2008 after a decision was made to focus all attention on managing the existing loan portfolio until such time as the UK Mortgage market returns to more normal conditions.

As for us, as soon as the fixed rate period was over and the prospect of early repayment charges was removed, it was transferred to another lender.

Edited by gazza77, 21 September 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[Johnoco]

I'm loving the low interest rates mortgage wise. But it will be a pain when they rise again, although I know some people who will not be able to afford their mortgages when they do. (due to changed circumstances in the meantime)

[Wolford6]

Hard copies of deeds are unimportant.

They are my deeds and I should say whether they get destroyed.

As it happens, my house is only thirty years old but plenty of houses in Bradford are 200 years old and to destroy their deeds would be nothing less than cultural vandalism.

[Methven Hornet]

I'm loving the low interest rates mortgage wise. But it will be a pain when they rise again, although I know some people who will not be able to afford their mortgages when they do. (due to changed circumstances in the meantime)

The way the 'recovery' is going, by the time interest rates rise I'll have paid off my mortgage.

Then I want sky-high interest rates!!!

[Saint Billinge]

Did it? When did that happen?



Nope, we were simply transferring the balance over to a different policy. We ended up paying £5k off the mortgage to get it down the level that they were prepared to lend. For different reasons, Amber were just as bad to deal with as the original mortgage advisor, who I had a paddy with over the issue, but that's another story for another day.

Whilst I was an IFA and afterwards from 2005. Advisers were submitting inaccurate information on application forms including inflated salaries in order to obtain mortgages that otherwise wouldn't have been approved. The FSA leaned down heavily on those found guilty. This was one of several scandals blighting the industry including pensions. I did come across some disgraceful advise during my 26 years in the business.

Edited by Saint Billinge, 21 September 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[JohnM]

The bankers are clearly a greedy bunch but what about the greedy housebuyers of the late 1990s and early 2000s who joined the queues to borrow as much as possible?

Average house prices increased by 350% (!) between 1997 and 2008 - about 35% a year whilst mortgage rates varied between about 8% and 3.5% a year over the same period.

Sure its tough now for those who have joined the gravy train since 1998 or who have overcommitted and are now facing, lets hope, more realistic interest rates.

But who gives a toss about those in the social housing sector who have no hope of ever getting their feet in the housing trough and have seen the gap between the have and the have nots widen by so much during the period between 1997 and 2008, just as long as you can get a good 2 year fixed mortgage?

As a footnote, in 2005 I had a self-certified interest only mortgage from a trustworthy, reputable and legitimate organisation (you know who you are! ) but I still had to supply 3 years accounts!

[marklaspalmas]

I had a major barny with a mortgage advisor a few years ago, who'd sold my now wife a self-certified mortgage with Amber Homeloans, despite her being in full time employment in an NHS hospital finance department.

Excusing how shoddy Amber themselves were to deal with, the issue arose when we decided to buy together, and to do this, we planned to move her mortgage to the new property. We completed the paperwork as requested by Amber, only to find that despite the £5k a year pay increase she'd had since her original application, and the 2 years of repayments, the amount to transfer was now being deemed as "unaffordable". To cut a long story short, it transpired that the application the advisor had subitted showed her income as being around £30k pa, rather than the £20k she was actually earning, as the mortgage advisor thought that this best described her "potential future earnings". Whilst the repayments were obviously affordable, it does kind of demonstrate the flawed thinking that lead to the current economic situatuation.

Gazza, I asked my wife about this, and she said (without knowing the ins & outs of the situation obviously) the bank's refusal could be more to do with them re-valuing the property and the house now being worth less than it was 2 years ago, rather than the previous advisor exagerrating her earnings. Hnece your extra payment resolving the situation. Could that be the case?

[Saint Billinge]

The bankers are clearly a greedy bunch but what about the greedy housebuyers of the late 1990s and early 2000s who joined the queues to borrow as much as possible?

Average house prices increased by 350% (!) between 1997 and 2008 - about 35% a year whilst mortgage rates varied between about 8% and 3.5% a year over the same period.

Sure its tough now for those who have joined the gravy train since 1998 or who have overcommitted and are now facing, lets hope, more realistic interest rates.

But who gives a toss about those in the social housing sector who have no hope of ever getting their feet in the housing trough and have seen the gap between the have and the have nots widen by so much during the period between 1997 and 2008, just as long as you can get a good 2 year fixed mortgage?

As a footnote, in 2005 I had a self-certified interest only mortgage from a trustworthy, reputable and legitimate organisation (you know who you are! ) but I still had to supply 3 years accounts!

!25% mortgages were dished out like confetti and were far from suitable for many, especially as house prices dropped hugely. With regard to submitting inflated earnings, it does warn on the mortgage application to check for accuracy and could be classed as a criminal offence for those who ignored the warning. In the mortgage frenzy, all sorts of dubious advice was given.

I actually turned down several mortgages on the basis that the client, in my opinion, was over stretching themselves financially. That said, there were many "vultures" keen to take on any mortgage applicant no matter what.

[marklaspalmas]

!25% mortgages were dished out like confetti and were far from suitable for many, especially as house prices dropped hugely. With regard to submitting inflated earnings, it does warn on the mortgage application to check for accuracy and could be classed as a criminal offence for those who ignored the warning. In the mortgage frenzy, all sorts of dubious advice was given.

I actually turned down several mortgages on the basis that the client, in my opinion, was over stretching themselves financially. That said, there were many "vultures" keen to take on any mortgage applicant no matter what.

You turned them down, or you advised clients not to take on the mortgage?

Whilst acknowledging what you say, as JohnM points out, there were people demanding these mortgages. Perhaps they should've been protected from their own greed better.

[Derwent]

Whilst I was an IFA and afterwards from 2005. Advisers were submitting inaccurate information on application forms including inflated salaries in order to obtain mortgages that otherwise wouldn't have been approved. The FSA leaned down heavily on those found guilty.

Why weren't they prosecuted for mortgage fraud ?

[Saint Billinge]

Why weren't they prosecuted for mortgage fraud ?

Some could well have been! The winner takes all culture began when the banks were allowed to lend for mortgages.

[Saint Billinge]

You turned them down, or you advised clients not to take on the mortgage?

Whilst acknowledging what you say, as JohnM points out, there were people demanding these mortgages. Perhaps they should've been protected from their own greed better.

Own greed or that of the lenders in their mad rush for business? People were borrowing money over 25 years in order to purchase a car. Suicidal stupidity. As you pointed out, I advised clients against borrowing what I considered too much and would not go ahead no matter what. If they then obtained funds elsewhere so be it.

Twenty-six years without one complaint in an industry suffering from greed and self-interest is a testimony to my own honesty.

Edited by Saint Billinge, 23 September 2012 - 09:10 AM.