82 replies to this topic

[Grinner]

I was thinking about the lack of fixtures, and one way might be to split up the clubs into 3 regional groups of three, and play home and away extra games against the other two teams in each group. Should be a certain amount of local rivalry which ought to give better than normal crowds?

e.g.
North: Oldham, Rochdale, Gateshead
West: N Wales, S Wales, Glos
South: Oxford, Hemel, Skolars

Would only be two more home fixtures but would at least be better than nothing?

Edited by Grinner, 25 September 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[stewpot01]

I was thinking about thelack of fixtures, and one way might be to split up theclubs into 3 regional groups of three, and play home and away extra games against the other two teams in each group. Should be a certain amount of local rivalry whioch ought to give better than normal crowds?

e.g.
North: Oldham, Rochdale, Gateshead
West: N Wales, S Wales, Glos
South: Oxford, Hemel, Skolars

Would only be two more home fixtures but would at least be better than nothing?

It's a good idea but against all common sense as far as the bigwigs at Red Hall are concerned.

[bowes]

If done right I'm all for it. Are the clubs going to be given a hand for travelling expenses from the RFL? Gateshead to Hemel, Gloucester, Oxford and London on crowds of 2 to 300 will hit the pocket. I'd rather the SL parachute some monies down the leagues to help the whole game. How's about a Sky game for the first match of say Oxford VS Gloucester? Show the old Onion brigade there is more to our game than the M62

The RFL are funding travel but they're halving the central handout at the same time.

[stewpot01]

If done right I'm all for it. Are the clubs going to be given a hand for travelling expenses from the RFL? Gateshead to Hemel, Gloucester, Oxford and London on crowds of 2 to 300 will hit the pocket. I'd rather the SL parachute some monies down the leagues to help the whole game. How's about a Sky game for the first match of say Oxford VS Gloucester? Show the old Onion brigade there is more to our game than the M62

I think they are going to need it. I did mention earlier in the thread with regards to Southend Invicta, I dug out my old Rothamns yearbook and found their lowest attendance at 88.

There is an awful lot of hard to be done to avoid such a thing happening again. I think Hemel are reasonably prepared, while it's worrying that Oxford have 'opted out' of the NRC to prepare, they should not be allowed in the league at all until they are 100% ready. I think Gloucester too might be a worry, I can see them taking some hidings.

[audois]

Is Troy Perkins staying as coach at Hemel. At least Oxford bound Tony Benson has Championship experience. Who's likely to get the gig at Gloucester. Those in the know think this CC1 division stronger than NCL Premier?

[West Country Eagle]

I was thinking about the lack of fixtures, and one way might be to split up the clubs into 3 regional groups of three, and play home and away extra games against the other two teams in each group. Should be a certain amount of local rivalry which ought to give better than normal crowds?

e.g.
North: Oldham, Rochdale, Gateshead
West: N Wales, S Wales, Glos
South: Oxford, Hemel, Skolars

Would only be two more home fixtures but would at least be better than nothing?

Makes sense to a degree, though Wrexham is closer to Oldham and Rochdale than it is ti Gloucester.

[BearPie]

Having seen Coventry battered at Hudds Underbank at weekend, it's clear that, in terms of playing ability, they are way short of stepping up. Hemel, on the other hand, look far better placed to compete. Indeed, in reality, Hemel is the only proper club looking to 'step-up' - and, for me, that is the sort of provenance that any expansion club should have.

I think all the clubs entering C1 are aware of the step up in playing level, and don't think any club would take their existing squad and throw it three divisions higher and expect it to stick. As Bearman said, we lost to Hudds, but weren't way off the mark by any means, and beat Hemel. But in terms of C1 that's a moot point, as all the teams will need to evolve significantly to compete.

One problem i've seen from living much of my life in a RL hotbed and now being involved in an expansion area is a level of lethargy displayed by some established clubs. Now I'm not dissing these heartland clubs, I've been involved in some and seen it first hand - having heritage and geographical location is quite often seen as a divine right. But that expectation stifles a club's drive to modernise and adapt, both on and off the pitch. It's a cultural thing that should have been addressed globally a long time ago, the skills gap between clubs in all leagues in terms of business operation, commercial savvy and supporter engagement is huge... but has been left to fester.

Having lived in the midlands expansion area for a year or so now, and now being involved here, the potential to hold a long-term successful team is staggering. The Bears are in the great position of having strong foundations in the area, positive playing and operational partnerships, ideal ground, and buckets of experience within the club. In terms of the step up, we're pretty much there, but 2013 will enable all the additional needs to be addressed fully. Hemel are in pretty good shape for C1 next year already, and it'll be interesting to see how Gloucester and Oxford arrive to the competition.

Of course, all rugby league clubs have to contend with so many challenges outside just running a club. I'm not sure I've seen another sport which throws so many curved balls at the people involved in it, it borders on the insane sometimes. And i'm not saying the new clubs are or will be the superior saviours of the Championship, but the new clubs are and will have to bring in new approaches to be successful long-term in C1. If these approaches are innovative enough to tackle financial, support, playing and commercial issues faced by existing clubs then that can only be a positive cultural move for RL aside from the main aim of expansion.

Edited by BearPie, 25 September 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[bowes]

Is Troy Perkins staying as coach at Hemel. At least Oxford bound Tony Benson has Championship experience. Who's likely to get the gig at Gloucester. Those in the know think this CC1 division stronger than NCL Premier?

Troy is staying. I expect NCL premier will be stronger.

[bearman]

Troy is staying. I expect NCL premier will be stronger.

There is no way that the NCL premier could compete with the Oldhams and Rochdales. Whenever NCL teams face pro clubs in the Challenge Cup they struggle.
That just shows that for the new clubs entering C1 they are going to have to significantly up their game.

[bowes]

There is no way that the NCL premier could compete with the Oldhams and Rochdales. Whenever NCL teams face pro clubs in the Challenge Cup they struggle.
That just shows that for the new clubs entering C1 they are going to have to significantly up their game.

Oldham and Rochdale won't be as strong. But any NCL premier side could beat Scorpions, Gateshead or the new sides and do in the equivalent cup meetings.

[superten]

With oxford and gloucester uni coming on board and northampton not getting started why not look at cambridge uni to fill the void.Oxford v Cambridge would surely have plenty of interest.

[del capo]

Oldham and Rochdale won't be as strong. But any NCL premier side could beat Scorpions, Gateshead or the new sides and do in the equivalent cup meetings.

As a matter of interest , some of the 2012 Challenge Cup results

Egremont 14 - Oldham 22
Wath Brow 22 - South Wales Scorpions 24
Gateshead 28 - York Acorn 20
York City Knights 40 - Hull Dockers 14
East Hull 20 - Rochdale Hornets 48

Selective to an extent maybe but it's not a time for CC1 newbies and potentials to get carried away........

[Methven Hornet]

I think all the clubs entering C1 are aware of the step up in playing level, and don't think any club would take their existing squad and throw it three divisions higher and expect it to stick. As Bearman said, we lost to Hudds, but weren't way off the mark by any means, and beat Hemel. But in terms of C1 that's a moot point, as all the teams will need to evolve significantly to compete.

One problem i've seen from living much of my life in a RL hotbed and now being involved in an expansion area is a level of lethargy displayed by some established clubs. Now I'm not dissing these heartland clubs, I've been involved in some and seen it first hand - having heritage and geographical location is quite often seen as a divine right. But that expectation stifles a club's drive to modernise and adapt, both on and off the pitch. It's a cultural thing that should have been addressed globally a long time ago, the skills gap between clubs in all leagues in terms of business operation, commercial savvy and supporter engagement is huge... but has been left to fester.

Having lived in the midlands expansion area for a year or so now, and now being involved here, the potential to hold a long-term successful team is staggering. The Bears are in the great position of having strong foundations in the area, positive playing and operational partnerships, ideal ground, and buckets of experience within the club. In terms of the step up, we're pretty much there, but 2013 will enable all the additional needs to be addressed fully. Hemel are in pretty good shape for C1 next year already, and it'll be interesting to see how Gloucester and Oxford arrive to the competition.

Of course, all rugby league clubs have to contend with so many challenges outside just running a club. I'm not sure I've seen another sport which throws so many curved balls at the people involved in it, it borders on the insane sometimes. And i'm not saying the new clubs are or will be the superior saviours of the Championship, but the new clubs are and will have to bring in new approaches to be successful long-term in C1. If these approaches are innovative enough to tackle financial, support, playing and commercial issues faced by existing clubs then that can only be a positive cultural move for RL aside from the main aim of expansion.

Great first post - welcome to the forum.

There had been some talk, and a little bit of scepticism, as to where any new, non-heartland teams will get players of a sufficient quality to compete in CC1. Out of interest, where do Coventry get their current players from? Are they exiled northerners, ex-union players, or have they come through the club's development programme. Where do you think the club will obtain the higher quality players needed for entry into CC1 in 2014?

[bowes]

Great first post - welcome to the forum.

There had been some talk, and a little bit of scepticism, as to where any new, non-heartland teams will get players of a sufficient quality to compete in CC1. Out of interest, where do Coventry get their current players from? Are they exiled northerners, ex-union players, or have they come through the club's development programme. Where do you think the club will obtain the higher quality players needed for entry into CC1 in 2014?

A wide mixture of graduates from the juniors, converts from RU, ex-pat Australians and northerners and students at Loughborough for the most part IMO. Though we also attract players from other parts of the midlands wanting a higher standard including one from Telford.

Our A team is virtually all players from the juniors as the older RU social players tend towards Coventry Dragons.

Edited by bowes, 25 September 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[keighley]

Great first post - welcome to the forum.

There had been some talk, and a little bit of scepticism, as to where any new, non-heartland teams will get players of a sufficient quality to compete in CC1. Out of interest, where do Coventry get their current players from? Are they exiled northerners, ex-union players, or have they come through the club's development programme. Where do you think the club will obtain the higher quality players needed for entry into CC1 in 2014?

Well, with the abandonment of the SL reserve teams or whatever they are called, there will be quite a nujmber of young promising players on the market for a job.

[Jonty]

I appreciate people's concerns about the numbers of teams/fixtures - it's pretty shambolic that "Northampton" happened, and not a good reflection at all on an RFL that supporters of all persuasions seem to be losing confidence in.

Maybe one solution for clubs is to "make" their own 9th (or more) fixture.

This could take many forms. Is there an opportunity for the likes of Rochdale, for example, to co-ordinate a 9s festival and build it into the season ticket? This could be income generating via sponsorship. This could be a tournament for the amateur game in and around the town, which, if organised correctly, could have the support of local clubs and ensure good numbers of supporters (not sure what Hornets' relationship is like with the amateur game?). There is also the opportunity to make the big games bigger. Attempt to generate extra income at Rochdale v Oldham off the back of a well-established derby.

I think the cut in the RFL grant is a disappointment though. This ringfenced grant traditionally allowed clubs to invest in their community, commercial and administrative operations, plus a smaller un-restricted contribution. In many ways these clubs need that invest more than ever before. It's not as if it can be used to buy "big name" players and chase trophies (although there are always loop holes in these things).

No club has a rightful place in any division. It's interesting that many of the negative viewpoints I've heard on the new CC1 have come from exactly the same people that state that a clubs rightful place should be "decided on the pitch".

[BearPie]

Thanks for the welcome Methven.

Bowes is pretty much there with the playing pool. The club has a solid player pathway which has seen a number of juniors move up through the ranks, but the squad has been complemented by ex pats, Loughborough and Coventry/Warwick students, playing partnerships with Sheffield Eagles and the Jamaican Rugby League.

As for Championship 1, obviously there'll be the need to look SL-wards but the coaching team are confident of attracting the right level of player, from within RL or RU. The playing set up is always a draw, and the Bears have a very good one.

[Grinner]

Makes sense to a degree, though Wrexham is closer to Oldham and Rochdale than it is ti Gloucester.

Yeah I realise that but thought it was worth keeping the Welsh sides together.

[Methven Hornet]

Thanks for the welcome Methven.

Bowes is pretty much there with the playing pool. The club has a solid player pathway which has seen a number of juniors move up through the ranks, but the squad has been complemented by ex pats, Loughborough and Coventry/Warwick students, playing partnerships with Sheffield Eagles and the Jamaican Rugby League.

As for Championship 1, obviously there'll be the need to look SL-wards but the coaching team are confident of attracting the right level of player, from within RL or RU. The playing set up is always a draw, and the Bears have a very good one.

That's pretty much what I suspected. I'm sure you and all the other new entrants will do fine. As you say, the standard of football you can offer will be a draw in itself.

[Methven Hornet]

Yeah I realise that but thought it was worth keeping the Welsh sides together.

Pretty sensible if you are dividing the league into threes - Crusaders v Scorpions is a pretty attractive fixture, it's the 'Championship of Wales', plus Rochdale, Oldham and Gateshead are the 3 northern sides.