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Please can/may I borrow your book!


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#21 Wolford6

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:57 AM

Many things sound like other things in various accents.


The problem would be solved overnight if everyone had the common decency to speak in a Welsh valleys accent.
B) :D

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#22 hindle xiii

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:02 AM

The problem would be solved overnight if everyone had the common decency to speak in a Welsh valleys accent.
B) :D

Then how would we know to avoid the Welsh valleys?

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#23 Wolford6

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:08 AM

Then how would we know to avoid the Welsh valleys?


Passport Control at Checkpoint Cymru

Edited by Wolford6, 27 September 2012 - 10:09 AM.

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#24 Johnoco

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:33 AM

The problem would be solved overnight if everyone had the common decency to speak in a Welsh valleys accent.
B) :D

Is that like Windsor Davies or Tom Jones?


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#25 gingerjon

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:54 AM

The problem would be solved overnight if everyone had the common decency to speak in a Welsh valleys accent.
B) :D


Given they sound completely different one valley town to the next that would be ... interesting ...
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#26 Bleep1673

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

Language is always an evolving animal, there are very few accents as such any more, you might think of a Lancashire or Yorkshire accent, but there used to be specific Manchester, Wigan, St. Helens, Leeds, York, Hull, Doncaster accents, where are they now, the people I now reside with, in Sussex, barely have any "local" accent at all, that is down to language & accents evolving.
If it didn't we would all still be speaking one of either Viking, Old French, Old Dutch, Saxon, or old English, as well as the variants in Wales, Scotland & Ireland
Television has a lot to answer for in the fight for local accents, everybody south of Milton Keynes either want to sound East End, or have a so-called Posh accent. I used to work with an Anaesthetist who grew up in the East End of London, in a Welsh community, and when she went to medical school she had a East End/Welsh Accent, she was warned her career wouldn't last long with that voice, so she spent a long time getting pronunciation lessons from one of the Queens teachers, now she speaks as though she has 2 plums up her A***.
I did meet a Lancastrian, from near Preston recently, and I could barely understand WTF he was on about, he was asking for directions, to a place near to Hastings, & I had to admit to him that I hadn't lived here that long & didn't know where the place was, it was only after about 4 or 5 minutes of working out what he said was I able to process where he meant. (My fault for living down south for 25 years).

Accents are important, as is the evolution of language, so that we can be understood (or understand) wherever we are, travel has enlarged the distances we can now go in one day, 150 years ago, it was usually the next village, or maybe the nearest market town, now I could get from Hastings to Inverness, or Penzance in 1 day.
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#27 Wolford6

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

Is that like Windsor Davies or Tom Jones?


Joe Calzaghe is Welsh Valley. The interviewer is South Wales Lowlands.




Nathan Cleverley and Darcy Blake


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#28 Wolford6

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

South Wales women have more of a sing-song tone.


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#29 Futtocks

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:31 PM

Language is always an evolving animal, there are very few accents as such any more, you might think of a Lancashire or Yorkshire accent, but there used to be specific Manchester, Wigan, St. Helens, Leeds, York, Hull, Doncaster accents, where are they now, the people I now reside with, in Sussex, barely have any "local" accent at all, that is down to language & accents evolving.
If it didn't we would all still be speaking one of either Viking, Old French, Old Dutch, Saxon, or old English, as well as the variants in Wales, Scotland & Ireland


Ever read Bill Bryson's book 'Mother Tongue'? A very readable history of the English language.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#30 D9000

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:12 PM

Ever read Bill Bryson's book 'Mother Tongue'? A very readable history of the English language.


Yes, excellent book. 'Made in America' is another good read from him, on a similar topic. (I find him very good as a provider of general information, but very often slappable when expressing his opinions, as in his travel writing).

#31 Saint Billinge

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

Depends on whether it's the subject or object.

Charlie and I went out. Ok. Subject.

Please give them to Charlie and me. Ok. Object.



No, both are correct. It's perfectly acceptable to use the modal verb 'can' when asking for permission.


A BBC newsreader said it should be 'may I borrow your book'. I have always said 'can I borrow...'

#32 marklaspalmas

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:32 PM

A BBC newsreader said it should be 'may I borrow your book'. I have always said 'can I borrow...'


Both forms are acceptable, correct English.

 

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#33 Blackbeard

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:33 PM

A BBC newsreader said it should be 'may I borrow your book'. I have always said 'can I borrow...'

What if she's called Maggie

#34 Saint Billinge

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:35 PM

Language is always an evolving animal, there are very few accents as such any more, you might think of a Lancashire or Yorkshire accent, but there used to be specific Manchester, Wigan, St. Helens, Leeds, York, Hull, Doncaster accents, where are they now, the people I now reside with, in Sussex, barely have any "local" accent at all, that is down to language & accents evolving.
If it didn't we would all still be speaking one of either Viking, Old French, Old Dutch, Saxon, or old English, as well as the variants in Wales, Scotland & Ireland
Television has a lot to answer for in the fight for local accents, everybody south of Milton Keynes either want to sound East End, or have a so-called Posh accent. I used to work with an Anaesthetist who grew up in the East End of London, in a Welsh community, and when she went to medical school she had a East End/Welsh Accent, she was warned her career wouldn't last long with that voice, so she spent a long time getting pronunciation lessons from one of the Queens teachers, now she speaks as though she has 2 plums up her A***.
I did meet a Lancastrian, from near Preston recently, and I could barely understand WTF he was on about, he was asking for directions, to a place near to Hastings, & I had to admit to him that I hadn't lived here that long & didn't know where the place was, it was only after about 4 or 5 minutes of working out what he said was I able to process where he meant. (My fault for living down south for 25 years).

Accents are important, as is the evolution of language, so that we can be understood (or understand) wherever we are, travel has enlarged the distances we can now go in one day, 150 years ago, it was usually the next village, or maybe the nearest market town, now I could get from Hastings to Inverness, or Penzance in 1 day.


St Helens and Wigan accents do differ considerably.

#35 Mumby Magic

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:25 PM

You're your

Their there

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#36 Saint Billinge

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:46 PM

A friend who was well versed in grammar once wrote to a writers' circle to enquire if he could arrange a talk on the subject. However, the word grammer in his letter was amusing. :D

#37 Wolford6

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

http://www.outputmag...ksyM32Sign.jpeg

Edited by Wolford6, 27 September 2012 - 05:55 PM.

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#38 Shadow

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:23 PM

As I get older and slowly morph into my own father :( I'm becoming more irascible over the misuse of "less" when what is meant is "fewer"
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#39 tonyXIII

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

Both forms are acceptable, correct English.


I believe you are an EFL teacher, so I am glad you got that right. Both are acceptable. As I understand it, "May I...?" is more formal, but "Can I...?" is a perfectly acceptable, if somewhat informal, alternative. It works because you are asking about ability, which would depend on the permission being granted, so in a roundabout way, it is asking permission.

As for some of the other points, "should of ..." makes me despair for my language, but I think that it may come to be accepted into the language one day. As Bleep said, language evolves. Perhaps we should embrace the changes?

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#40 timtum

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:12 PM

I'm struggling to get to grips with the increasing Americanisation (oops) of dates. I can't be doing with September twentieth instead of the twentieth of September.

Oh, that felt good. :)
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