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Please can/may I borrow your book!


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#41 JohnM

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:05 AM

"Can I"... borrow your book asks the question, " do you think I have the ability to perform the act of borrowing your book, whereas "may I " asks your permission.


and generally, its is BECAUSE OF or OWING TO not DUE TO

(Mr Greene, English teacher 1960 Salford Technical High School, Leaf Square, if you are up there reading this - See, I WAS listening!)

#42 Severus

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:17 AM

Being a product of the comprehensive school system in the later 80s/early 90s I struggle with grammar. We weren't taught the rules of grammar or syntax and I can't tell an adjective from an adverb.
Fides invicta triumphat

#43 Griff9of13

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:15 AM

Being a product of the comprehensive school system in the later 80s/early 90s I struggle with grammar. We weren't taught the rules of grammar or syntax and I can't tell an adjective from an adverb.

Similar story here (but in my case the mid to late 70s :(), but have since made an effort to try and learn.
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#44 Saint Billinge

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:21 AM

Just seen this headline.... Women's and Girls' Football! Also read about Ladie's Football and Ladies' Football!

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#45 Leeds Wire

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:24 AM

very often slappable when expressing his opinions, as in his travel writing).


Oh thank goodness for that, I thought it was just me!

I tried to persevere with 'notes from a small island' even though it read like a list of grumpy B&B reviews. However, when I got to the bit where he was complaining about the lack of public transport in a run down Gwynedd village - on a Sunday, in January - I couldn't take any more.

So are his other ramblings worth a look, then?

#46 gingerjon

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:42 AM

Women's and Girls' Football!


Which bit's wrong there?
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#47 Saint Billinge

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:08 AM

Which bit's wrong there?


I would say Girls' Football. However, it is most confusing from the research I have done on football.

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#48 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

I struggle with people who are for example Workaholics?

Now Alcoholic I can understand but if you use the same reasoning behind workaholic should it not be alcohololic? Or should workaholic not be just Workic?
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#49 ckn

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:19 AM

Being a product of the comprehensive school system in the later 80s/early 90s I struggle with grammar. We weren't taught the rules of grammar or syntax and I can't tell an adjective from an adverb.

I had a generally excellent education in the comprehensive school system but English was the weak point. Indifferent English teachers throughout my entire high school experience who went at their pace whether any of us in the class understood or not. I remember about a three week period where our normal teacher was ill and the substitute teacher simply gave us copies of the Hobbit and told us to shut up and read during every class without any tuition at all. That bored me rigid because I'd already read the book before then. When the normal teacher returned, she slotted into her schedule and simply abandoned any idea of trying to cover the stuff we missed in the three weeks before; the first day back she set us homework of having read a chapter set of a new book that was half way through the book and then she got upset next day when none of us had completed the homework.

The only reason I have anywhere near a decent grasp of English is through the amount of reading I do and some very severe marking during my degree! In the first year of my degree I think I lost about 5% out of every subject's marks due to being marked down for poor grammar skills.

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#50 hindle xiii

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:52 AM

I struggle with people who are for example Workaholics?

Now Alcoholic I can understand but if you use the same reasoning behind workaholic should it not be alcohololic? Or should workaholic not be just Workic?

I assume it's both the synonym for someone who is obsessed and the 'k' sound in both alc and work (and choc)

2826856.jpg?type=articleLandscape

 

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#51 Saint Billinge

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:12 AM

Being a product of the comprehensive school system in the later 80s/early 90s I struggle with grammar. We weren't taught the rules of grammar or syntax and I can't tell an adjective from an adverb.


Not everyone who is proficient in grammar gains a grade in life. It's been said, JK Rowling: "May not be the most stylish user of language but she's an amazing storyteller."

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#52 ckn

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:16 AM

Posted Image

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#53 D9000

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:23 AM

Oh thank goodness for that, I thought it was just me!

I tried to persevere with 'notes from a small island' even though it read like a list of grumpy B&B reviews. However, when I got to the bit where he was complaining about the lack of public transport in a run down Gwynedd village - on a Sunday, in January - I couldn't take any more.

So are his other ramblings worth a look, then?


Yes, a Short History of Everything and a At Home: A Short History of Private Life are both enjoyable and rewarding reads. Friends who know more about science grump that he gets some difficult concepts wrong, but it doesn't trouble the layman very much. Made in America and Mother Tongue have already been mentioned as good reads. The only travel book of his I recommend is Lost Continent, where he travels through small town USA.

It was the same incident in Small island that annoyed me, too. He was grumping something awful about the Festiniog Railway train from Blaenau not having been held to await the late train from Llandudno. If the annoying person had done some bleedin' research he would have realised that if you want to use public transport from Blaenau to Porthmadog you get the number 1 bus, which takes half the time and costs a quarter of the price, and yes, it does run on a Sunday. Neither Here Nor There was even worse, he spends the whole time whinging and getting drunk. When he complained about there being nothing to do or see in Sion, Switzerland, a town with two castles and surrounded by vineyards, I hurled the book into the nearest wall. Did Not Do The Research. The one set in Australia was annoying too, five minutes in the place and he's pontificating about the Australian national character as if he'd been living there for years.

#54 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:04 PM

I assume it's both the synonym for someone who is obsessed and the 'k' sound in both alc and work (and choc)


Shopaholic?
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen

Posted Image

The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens.


#55 hindle xiii

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:14 PM

Shopaholic?

No, I'm too tight with my money.

2826856.jpg?type=articleLandscape

 

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#56 JohnM

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:28 PM

Fundamentally it is about communication...of facts, ideas, feelings, intentions etc. ,

Thus spelling, grammar, punctuation, style 'n stuff, are important in ensuring correct communications. Context, usage, medium, situation all come into this, That is why shopahlic and chocaholic are acceptable as teh meaning is clear whether of not the word construction is correct.

#57 hindle xiii

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:32 PM

Fundamentally it is about communication...of facts, ideas, feelings, intentions etc. ,

Thus spelling, grammar, punctuation, style 'n stuff, are important in ensuring correct communications. Context, usage, medium, situation all come into this, That is why shopahlic and chocaholic are acceptable as teh meaning is clear whether of not the word construction is correct.

Your write.

2826856.jpg?type=articleLandscape

 

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#58 chuffer

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:58 PM

Arf arf

#59 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:26 PM

"Can I"... borrow your book asks the question, " do you think I have the ability to perform the act of borrowing your book, whereas "may I " asks your permission.


This is BS dreamed up by some ###### with elbow patches to make himself sound intelligent albeit in a pretentious way.

Can and may are model verbs; modal verbs have multiple meanings for instance "may" is used as a synonym of might and marks a possible future e.g. "I may go out tonight".

Applied to your suggested sentence: "May I borrow your book?" implies that that you are asking your friend whether you are likely to do so in the future.

Of course that would be bolox.

#60 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

I believe you are an EFL teacher, so I am glad you got that right. Both are acceptable. As I understand it, "May I...?" is more formal, but "Can I...?" is a perfectly acceptable, if somewhat informal, alternative. It works because you are asking about ability, which would depend on the permission being granted, so in a roundabout way, it is asking permission.


Untrue, you could also ask "Could I borrow...?" but it would have nothing to do with the past tense or ability. Most modal verbs have multiple meanings that sometimes have little or nothing to do with each other.




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