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Rams and Bulls announce link-up (merged threads)


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#61 Blind side johnny

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

Am I the only one that remembers what happened to Bramley? What a success that was, in one of there last games we played them at Headingley with a team comprising of Barry McDermott (returning from injury), the Goulden twins and if memory serves Marcus Bai. I cannot believe some of you are falling for the rubbish Bramley did. Do you honestly believe that if Bradford have an injury crisis, that your players won't playing at Odsal rather than Sham stadium???

Just how naive do you have to be to believe that history will not repeat itself? The barstewards in charge of the game have been trying to demolish the lower tiers since the inception of SL, remember the merger proposals? It seems some are just rolling out the welcome mat and all too pleased to see the end of the game outside SL.

Absolutely disgusted!!!


I understand your viewpoint P&H but await the announcement of a similar set up between Batley and Fartown.
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#62 guest from down under

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:03 PM

Am I the only one that remembers what happened to Bramley? What a success that was, in one of there last games we played them at Headingley with a team comprising of Barry McDermott (returning from injury), the Goulden twins and if memory serves Leroy Rivett. I cannot believe some of you are falling for the rubbish Bramley did. Do you honestly believe that if Bradford have an injury crisis, that your players won't playing at Odsal rather than Sham stadium???

Just how naive do you have to be to believe that history will not repeat itself? The barstewards in charge of the game have been trying to demolish the lower tiers since the inception of SL, remember the merger proposals? It seems some of you are just rolling out the welcome mat and all too pleased to see the end of the game outside SL.

Absolutely disgusted!!!



You are probably right as our chairman as you all well know is an absolute plank and just falls for each and every three card trick .

#63 Pride & Heritage

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

I understand your viewpoint P&H but await the announcement of a similar set up between Batley and Fartown.


If they do, I can honestly say I certainly won't be watching Batley any more. I really cannot see any point in watching a 2nd team competition. Especially a 2nd team consisting of another teams 2nd rate players.

#64 Rambo

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

Must admit, I have held a season ticket at Dewsbury since the 90's and the thought of being the bulls 2nd team -whichever way you dress it up, makes me physically sick.

Think I may invest my season ticket money in a water feature for the garden and forget about rugby league.
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#65 Pride & Heritage

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

You are probably right as our chairman as you all well know is an absolute plank and just falls for each and every three card trick .


I like the sarcarsm GFDU, but holding up MS as a shining light of sound judgement after employing WJ as coach for 3 seasons doesn't fill me full of confidence!!!

He fell for WJ's "..yer know, it was the ref's fault, we're getting it right yer know, there not sticking to the game plan yer know" his 3 card trick for swallowed for 2 seasons, why would he not fall for Bradford's 3 card trick?

Edited by Pride & Heritage, 04 October 2012 - 09:27 PM.


#66 Rambo

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

How long before the ground is sold and we move in at Odsal?

At lease there will be more development land to use for retirement flats.

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#67 Ramite

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:30 PM

Am I the only one that remembers what happened to Bramley? What a success that was, in one of there last games we played them at Headingley with a team comprising of Barry McDermott (returning from injury), the Goulden twins and if memory serves Leroy Rivett. Do you reckon you will getting players of that quality turning out for you? Even if you did, would it make you a success? It certainly did Bramley a lot of good.

I cannot believe some of you are falling for the rubbish Bramley did. Do you honestly believe that if Bradford have an injury crisis, that your players won't playing at Odsal rather than Sham stadium???

Just how naive do you have to be to believe that history will not repeat itself? The barstewards in charge of the game have been trying to demolish the lower tiers since the inception of SL, remember the merger proposals? It seems some of you are just rolling out the welcome mat and all too pleased to see the end of the game outside SL.

Absolutely disgusted!!!

Why are the rfl trying to get rid of the levels below SL?
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#68 jt

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:10 PM

You cannot blame the RFL but the championship clubs that are doing this they should of all said no to this like Fev Fax and the eagles

Eagles and Fev run all teams from 15s to 23s and the first team Fax I am led to believe are improving there's if these clubs can do it the S/L clubs can afford to do it as they get alot more money there more to this than the cost the only winners will be the S/ L clubs and not the championship

Bradford will have all the say If Dewsbury have a player playing well and Bradford are short one week who has the final say which team he plays for If a player is coming back from injury does he get in the Dewsbury side even if your coach doesn't want to drop one of his own players I don't know the answer but I think I know what will happen

As I say hope it goes well for you time will tell

#69 Blind side johnny

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:37 AM

You cannot blame the RFL but the championship clubs that are doing this they should of all said no to this like Fev Fax and the eagles

Eagles and Fev run all teams from 15s to 23s and the first team Fax I am led to believe are improving there's if these clubs can do it the S/L clubs can afford to do it as they get alot more money there more to this than the cost the only winners will be the S/ L clubs and not the championship

Bradford will have all the say If Dewsbury have a player playing well and Bradford are short one week who has the final say which team he plays for If a player is coming back from injury does he get in the Dewsbury side even if your coach doesn't want to drop one of his own players I don't know the answer but I think I know what will happen

As I say hope it goes well for you time will tell


No it wouldn't work that way if I've understood it correctly. Bradford would not be able to simply use a Dewsbury contracted player at will; they would have to actually recruit said player, giving him a contract and paying a transfer fee. What they would do is place their fringe players at our club for game experience and recall those players as and when required.
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#70 Ackroman

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:55 AM

I can't understand this from a pretty simplistic point of view. Back in the day, teams didn't have academies, they signed players for a first team squad but had enough guys around to run an A team (some). This meant that generally clubs only signed players that they could arguably give a game and the local amateur clubs kept players of a certain standard that little bit longer.

Since the inception of SL and all that lovely money, SL clubs and those wealthier lower tier teams have set up academies without actually having anywhere for these players to play and as it has been shown that far too many get dumped or pushed around the place.

Why can't we just go back to the old way? Academies clearly haven't created as many world class prospects as was thought. It could be argued the old system was better at producing better players. Top class talent will always stand out but the academy system somehow expects more average players to suddenly spring wings.

On this basis alone I would tell the bunch of cut throats at Odsal what I thought. These academy lads are being sold a dream that has failed them and will fail the teams in the Championship.

#71 grumpyoldram

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:28 AM

I can't understand this from a pretty simplistic point of view. Back in the day, teams didn't have academies, they signed players for a first team squad but had enough guys around to run an A team (some). This meant that generally clubs only signed players that they could arguably give a game and the local amateur clubs kept players of a certain standard that little bit longer.

Since the inception of SL and all that lovely money, SL clubs and those wealthier lower tier teams have set up academies without actually having anywhere for these players to play and as it has been shown that far too many get dumped or pushed around the place.

Why can't we just go back to the old way? Academies clearly haven't created as many world class prospects as was thought. It could be argued the old system was better at producing better players. Top class talent will always stand out but the academy system somehow expects more average players to suddenly spring wings.

On this basis alone I would tell the bunch of cut throats at Odsal what I thought. These academy lads are being sold a dream that has failed them and will fail the teams in the Championship.

Lets consider a scenario. Bradfords new owners plough vast amounts of money into their new team for next season. They recruit a number of English and antipodean internationals, and produce a team which becomes virtually unbeatable - at the end of the season say a dozen points clear of the rest. Meanwhile, GM proves to be a shrewd judge of a player and a brilliant coach, so that at the end of the season we comfortably make the playoffs and find ourselves in the grand final. Now as I understand things, under our cosy little agreement, GM will be entitled to ask his mate FC, if he might like to leave four or five of his top players out of the Bulls matchday squad, thereby making them available to the Rams for the final. This could of course, be against a side without such an arrangement. My question is this, despite being quite within the rules, would it be morally right to go down that path ? - and given the financial benefits to the club, surely the temptation would be there. If this kind of agreement is to become comonplace, then it is essential that the RFL step in and police it, limit numbers to maybe two SL players, and make sure there is a level playing field. Won't be throwing my toys out of the pram over this, but I have grave reservations.

#72 DEWSBURY TIL I DIE

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

Lets consider a scenario. Bradfords new owners plough vast amounts of money into their new team for next season. They recruit a number of English and antipodean internationals, and produce a team which becomes virtually unbeatable - at the end of the season say a dozen points clear of the rest. Meanwhile, GM proves to be a shrewd judge of a player and a brilliant coach, so that at the end of the season we comfortably make the playoffs and find ourselves in the grand final. Now as I understand things, under our cosy little agreement, GM will be entitled to ask his mate FC, if he might like to leave four or five of his top players out of the Bulls matchday squad, thereby making them available to the Rams for the final. This could of course, be against a side without such an arrangement. My question is this, despite being quite within the rules, would it be morally right to go down that path ? - and given the financial benefits to the club, surely the temptation would be there. If this kind of agreement is to become comonplace, then it is essential that the RFL step in and police it, limit numbers to maybe two SL players, and make sure there is a level playing field. Won't be throwing my toys out of the pram over this, but I have grave reservations.


I think only 2 or 3 max can play in eachgame and we can only take 8 different players from them in a season. So it would be a level playing field.

#73 DEWSBURY TIL I DIE

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:43 AM

Must admit, I have held a season ticket at Dewsbury since the 90's and the thought of being the bulls 2nd team -whichever way you dress it up, makes me physically sick.

Think I may invest my season ticket money in a water feature for the garden and forget about rugby league.


I think if you go on the club website and read the questions and answers you may see the benefits. Non of our contracted players can leave for the Bulls at the drop of a hat during the season, just because the bulls have a injury crisis. If they did wed need a transfer fee and the player would have to agree to a fulltime contract with bradford, hence leaving his day job. If the bulls do sign any of our hot prospects, which lets face it wev had only 1 lad go to Superleague in about 6 years so isnt something that happens everyseason, then it would probably be the end of the season.

Our last player to leave for superleague was Dom Maloney
Before that i can only remember Mike Wainwright joining Wakefield so we dont exactly lose loads of lads to superleague fulltime rugby, so i dont see it been a problem?

Hope you renew your season ticket mate as the club need you and i alot more than we need bradford.

Edited by DEWSBURY TIL I DIE, 05 October 2012 - 10:44 AM.


#74 Tom Coates

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:05 AM

Stopping my DREMA membership subscription after this month, having being among the first 12 to sign up for it around a decade ago. That club we are going to "synergise" with has been a cancer on the sport for too long.

Since the formation of the highly dubious league it has been at the forefront of, it has been wrongly held up as the paragon of how to run a modern club. When the time came that showed it was built on mud it was propped up by the corrupt, greedy and immoral individuals that run the top level of this sport.

I wish to play no part in propping it up further, financially or otherwise.



It's not my place to tell you what to think about Bradford, but maybe I can address some of your other concerns about the partnership, as it would be a huge shame to lose your support for 2013.

The Rams won't be propping anybody up. We have a mutual agreement with Bradford that we have chosen to enter into due to the benefits it will bring to the club.

The main benefit we get is access to fringe first teamers at the Bulls. It's very similar to the dual-reg system that has brought Steve Crossley and Danny Addy to the club, with the only difference being that we get first pick of the Bulls players ahead of any other Championship club.

We are not obligated to take any Bradford players who are short of game time. Glenn decides who plays for the Rams. He has his own squad of players and his on plans for 2013. The new agreement will not undermine that.

And just to reiterate: Bradford Bulls will not be allowed to 'cherry pick' any Rams player that catches their eye. They must follow the same process as any other Super League club if they want to sign one of our players.

All this is is S/L clubs saving money on there academy teams and using championship clubs to get the 23s in a environment to see if there good enough Lets see how you go on if it happened to my club I would walk away from the game it's not perfect now but this is just using the championship as a drop off for kids and injured first teamers in my opinion Good luck anyway



Most Academy followers I speak to say that the changes have been made to save clubs money, this is correct.

But Glenn is under no obligation to select Bradford players in his squad and is limited to a maximum of five by RFL rules, regardless of either party's preference.

Leading Championship clubs like Leigh have already toed that figure thanks to their relationship with Warrington.

I agree with credit.Apart from a few s.l clubs there isn't enough money to be fully prof.The likes of Hethrington at Leeds couldn't give a fig about the lower leagues.Are we any closer to the Aussies?
Bring back the word RUGBY LEAGUE.PROMOTION AND RELIGATION and have proper pyramid.



I think the P&R issue is a separate one. I too have my own views on the current system but I wouldn't for a second let it affect my loyalty and passion for my club.

This isn't just about players, it's about morals. Everybody knows the Super Greed clubs will dump on whoever they have to as soon as cash is waved in front of them. Clubs outside it are now, at best, an afterthought. We can all see through this PR drivel - Cummins talking about "natural synergy". Glad he never became our coach, even Warren Jowitt was more succinct. I hate it when people talk about the "rugby league family" because this simply does not exist any more. The game is more divided than it has ever been and yet this fact is continually glossed over by Sky TV and others.
This move is just making a widening split even wider and it is not surprising that people who care deeply about RL are talking of walking away. That's what happens when you get punched in the stomach one too many times.



Again, I don't think its right to withdraw your support from Dewsbury out of frustration with the way the game is run.

I share a lot of those frustrations, but if anything that's drawn me closer to my Championship club.

This move isn't widening the gap between Dewsbury and the Super League.

For the last three years we have selected Super League Academy players in our squad thanks to the dual-registration system. The situation won't be any different next year.

This is a disappointing move by the club and is just another nail into the coffin of RL below SL level. We are becoming a feeder club on the sly.



A feeder club would be one whose players can be called up by the 'parent' club at a week's notice and without an agreement having to be reached.

This isn't the case with our link-up with the Bulls. Bradford have no 'easy access' to our players. They are subject to the same processes and rules as any other club wanting to sign another club's player.

EG: Alex Walmsley from Batley to Saints, Chris Hill from Leigh to Warrington, Zak Hardaker from Featherstone to Leeds.

Not sure what Tom is getting paid to put his spin on the announcement but it hasn't fooled me.



I'm not getting paid anything and I'm not putting spin on anything. I'm just trying to explain the agreement from a Dewsbury perspective.

I know that most clubs seem to be linking up with SL teams, but the fact we have linked up with Bradford Bulls makes it 10 times worse.

I don't have an ounce of respect for that club and it will be interesting if they are demoted to the Championship in 2014, although not sure if that is still on the cards or not.

Assuming they are does that mean we will have to play in Champ 1?

Anyone, but Bradford... Thought a link up with Wakefield might have been on the cards, especially with Morrison at the helm now. I guess they will have Featherstone as their feeder club https://lh5.googleus...WTrSKtKXng3ujO4



Again, not my place to comment on your opinions about the Bulls, but it is worth keeping in mind that the Rams have benefited pretty handsomely from the pre-season friendlies between the two clubs in recent years.

#75 Tom Coates

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

The Championship strength is further weakened by the selfish SL clubs and the idiots running the game from Red Hall. The fact is SL clubs dont have enough money to do things properly so are looking at ways that can benefit them rather than help Championship clubs. When has Bradford ever done anything to help another club?



They let us keep all the gate receipts from a pre-season friendly between the two teams, usually watched by 2,000+.

This new arrangement will benefit us as we will have first access to players outside of their first team.

Never as it only has its own interests at heart and that includes throwing free tickets away in surrounding areas instead of doing proper development work in its city. We now have a situation where the RFL and SL clubs now basically force themselves on Championship clubs and use and abuse them.



Nobody's forced themselves on Dewsbury. The club has chosen to enter into this agreement because of the benefits it will bring us.

Tom Coates can put spin on how this benefits everybody. In reality its just a further progression for Championship clubs to eventually become feeder clubs.



Again, no spin. Just details about how the link-up will benefit Dewsbury.

Thankfully my club Halifax are just about in a position to run their own academy and not be part of a SL twinning or whatever you want to call it. I believe Featherstone and Sheffield also have no intention to go down this twinning route.



If you add Leigh to that then you have the four 'biggest' clubs in the Championship, who each have realistic aspirations of reaching the Super League.

Dewsbury's circumstances are very different to those four clubs'.

I hope things work out but from my knowledge they rarely do and only team to really benefit are the SL clubs with their hidden agendas.



Bradford's agenda - which isn't hidden - is to create a potential new avenue for their young players to gain experience following the restructuring of the Academy system.

To be fair to Tom he has to put spin on it and go with the flow as thats part of his job. But I wouldnt trust the RFL or any SL club despite what the official blah blah blah says. I hope Dewsbury and others can keep their identity and not allow any further erosion of being a fine proud club be eroded by others in the game



I’m a lifelong supporter of the club first and foremost and would hope that people could trust me!

Am I the only one that remembers what happened to Bramley? What a success that was, in one of there last games we played them at Headingley with a team comprising of Barry McDermott (returning from injury), the Goulden twins and if memory serves Leroy Rivett. Do you reckon you will getting players of that quality turning out for you? Even if you did, would it make you a success? It certainly did Bramley a lot of good.



This arrangement bears no resemblance whatsoever to Leeds’ link with Bramley, and Dewsbury’s circumstances are entirely different to what Bramley’s were.

I cannot believe some of you are falling for the rubbish Bramley did. Do you honestly believe that if Bradford have an injury crisis, that your players won't playing at Odsal rather than Sham stadium???



Unless Bradford want to sign our players under the standard process, then no, they won’t. They’ll still be Dewsbury Rams players who play for Dewsbury Rams.

If they do, I can honestly say I certainly won't be watching Batley any more. I really cannot see any point in watching a 2nd team competition. Especially a 2nd team consisting of another teams 2nd rate players.



The only way yours or any club will be fielding ‘second team players’ is if the coach chooses to select them. They don’t have to pick anybody they don’t want to.

Must admit, I have held a season ticket at Dewsbury since the 90's and the thought of being the bulls 2nd team -whichever way you dress it up, makes me physically sick.

Think I may invest my season ticket money in a water feature for the garden and forget about rugby league.



We won’t be the Bulls’ second team. The Dewsbury Rams players are the ones on the official site under ‘Game > First Team’ and they will continue to be unless another club wants to sign them, as has been the case for over a hundred years.

Any Bradford players that appear in the Rams squad will have to be selected by our first team head coach.

Glenn is assembling a squad which he believes will be competitive regardless of any additions from the Bulls Academy.

Would be terrible to lose your support over this. Please wait and see how 2013 pans out before you stop attending matches.

#76 Tom Coates

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

You cannot blame the RFL but the championship clubs that are doing this they should of all said no to this like Fev Fax and the eagles.

Eagles and Fev run all teams from 15s to 23s and the first team Fax I am led to believe are improving there's if these clubs can do it the S/L clubs can afford to do it as they get alot more money there more to this than the cost the only winners will be the S/ L clubs and not the championship



Sheffield, Featherstone and Halifax’s circumstances and ambitions are entirely different to Dewsbury’s.

Bradford will still run an Academy under-19s squad next season, and a full scholarship programme at younger age groups. It’s just the under-20s team that has been removed.

Bradford will have all the say If Dewsbury have a player playing well and Bradford are short one week who has the final say which team he plays for



We will, as he'll be our player.

If a player is coming back from injury does he get in the Dewsbury side even if your coach doesn't want to drop one of his own players I don't know the answer but I think I know what will happen



No, he won’t. Glenn Morrison picks the Rams team and he will pick who he likes.

No it wouldn't work that way if I've understood it correctly. Bradford would not be able to simply use a Dewsbury contracted player at will; they would have to actually recruit said player, giving him a contract and paying a transfer fee. What they would do is place their fringe players at our club for game experience and recall those players as and when required.



Correct, although the fringe players wouldn’t be ‘placed’ here. They’d remain with Bradford and just be available to us if we wanted them.

Lets consider a scenario. Bradfords new owners plough vast amounts of money into their new team for next season. They recruit a number of English and antipodean internationals, and produce a team which becomes virtually unbeatable - at the end of the season say a dozen points clear of the rest. Meanwhile, GM proves to be a shrewd judge of a player and a brilliant coach, so that at the end of the season we comfortably make the playoffs and find ourselves in the grand final. Now as I understand things, under our cosy little agreement, GM will be entitled to ask his mate FC, if he might like to leave four or five of his top players out of the Bulls matchday squad, thereby making them available to the Rams for the final.

This could of course, be against a side without such an arrangement. My question is this, despite being quite within the rules, would it be morally right to go down that path ? - and given the financial benefits to the club, surely the temptation would be there. If this kind of agreement is to become comonplace, then it is essential that the RFL step in and police it, limit numbers to maybe two SL players, and make sure there is a level playing field. Won't be throwing my toys out of the pram over this, but I have grave reservations.



The RFL will be policing it. There’ll be a maximum of five Bulls players permitted in any given Rams match-day squad.

It’s up to Glenn how much of that quota he wants to fill, but I don’t think he’d be assembling a squad of 24/25 with the intention of dropping them for the big matches.

#77 BatleyFanAndy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:38 AM

No it wouldn't work that way if I've understood it correctly. Bradford would not be able to simply use a Dewsbury contracted player at will; they would have to actually recruit said player, giving him a contract and paying a transfer fee. What they would do is place their fringe players at our club for game experience and recall those players as and when required.


It makes it easier for them to do so though.
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#78 BatleyFanAndy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

I understand your viewpoint P&H but await the announcement of a similar set up between Batley and Fartown.


Batley have already said they won't be anyones second team.
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#79 Tom Coates

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:47 AM

It makes it easier for them to do so though.


Care to elaborate?

#80 Blind side johnny

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

Batley have already said they won't be anyones second team.


And nor are Dewsbury.
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