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06/10/12 - SL Grand Final: Leeds Rhinos v Warrington Wolves


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Poll: Who will win? (39 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. Leeds Rhinos by 13 points or more (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Voted Leeds Rhinos by 7 to 12 points (8 votes [20.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.51%

  3. Voted Leeds Rhinos by 1 to 6 points (6 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  4. Warrington Wolves by 1 to 6 points (6 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  5. Warrington Wolves by 7 to 12 points (11 votes [28.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.21%

  6. Warrington Wolves by 13 points or more (8 votes [20.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.51%

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#181 MrFussy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:01 PM

I was asked about whether Leeds care about league placing, not about whether they care about getting to wembley and winning the WCC (which they did this year but they haven't always done). I simply think they care more about the grand final. Their performances have changed at the back end of the season too many times now for it to be a coincidence. Any team wants to win any match; no team will go out to lose anything and to suggest otherwise is silly. But that is a lot different from planning when to peak, and training up to that point. Athletes do it all the time, for the Olympics, for world cups, etc. Leeds do it for grand finals.

And they're quite right to. Surely every team in the playoffs intends to peak? Leeds are just better than everyone else at doing it.

You say the old system was basically the top two thrashing it out at Old Trafford yet the only reason that this wasn't the case this year is because Leeds put Wigan out. They have beat the top two ranking teams in back to back weeks and as a result thoroughly deserve their place as champions.

Why are their fans suckers for buying season tickets? I suspect many fans who buy season tickets do so because they love the club regardless of week to week performances. On top of that the struggle of the journey surely adds to the sweetness of the triumph. To claim that they are a waste of space and deliberately look to finish fifth is quite extraordinary. To say that losing 11 games doesn't make them champions is also a rather odd statement, it's the games that they've won which make them champions, and that isn't an opinion - it's a fact.

It is hard to see the team that broke our hearts four times in five years triumph again, but that's just the way it goes.

I understand concerns about the system and I don't like it myself, but personally my main gripes with it are the gimmicky club call and that a team that finishes in the bottom half of the table is involved. I have no problem with what Leeds have achieved again this year and how they've gone about doing it.

#182 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

And they're quite right to. Surely every team in the playoffs intends to peak? Leeds are just better than everyone else at doing it.

You say the old system was basically the top two thrashing it out at Old Trafford yet the only reason that this wasn't the case this year is because Leeds put Wigan out. They have beat the top two ranking teams in back to back weeks and as a result thoroughly deserve their place as champions.

Why are their fans suckers for buying season tickets? I suspect many fans who buy season tickets do so because they love the club regardless of week to week performances. On top of that the struggle of the journey surely adds to the sweetness of the triumph. To claim that they are a waste of space and deliberately look to finish fifth is quite extraordinary. To say that losing 11 games doesn't make them champions is also a rather odd statement, it's the games that they've won which make them champions, and that isn't an opinion - it's a fact.

It is hard to see the team that broke our hearts four times in five years triumph again, but that's just the way it goes.

I understand concerns about the system and I don't like it myself, but personally my main gripes with it are the gimmicky club call and that a team that finishes in the bottom half of the table is involved. I have no problem with what Leeds have achieved again this year and how they've gone about doing it.


I agree, there are problems with the top 8 system but you can't really complain that a club that has made the last 4 major finals in succession has won the competition, even if they did finish 5th.

#183 Saintslass

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:12 PM

And they're quite right to. Surely every team in the playoffs intends to peak? Leeds are just better than everyone else at doing it.

Well exactly.

You say the old system was basically the top two thrashing it out at Old Trafford yet the only reason that this wasn't the case this year is because Leeds put Wigan out.

And last year? And no doubt next year?

Why are their fans suckers for buying season tickets?

Leeds have been atrocious at times this season, as indeed they were at times last season. For periods of time too not just the odd game. Paying for a season ticket is investing in the season, not just in four games at the end of it. And some of them do feel aggrieved.

deliberately look to finish fifth is quite extraordinary.

Had I said that then it would be. I said that I don't think they care about their league placing so long as it's in the top 8. Evidence suggests that to be the case as they have now won it from fifth twice. Once could have been a freak occurrence; twice looks like the tactics of the coach who has overseen both occasions. I don't know why that would be extraordinary. Tactics are a perfectly natural aspect of sport.

It is hard to see the team that broke our hearts four times in five years triumph again, but that's just the way it goes.

I am sorry that you found it hard. Personally I didn't care at all as I wasn't there and it wasn't my team. My comments have been wholly on the issue of winning from lower in the league having lost 11 matches in the season and the way in which that demotes the value and quality of our competition. My comments haven't been about Leeds directly. Had it been Wakefield that had done this or the Broncos or Warrington I would be saying the same thing. It's the winning from fifth, the tosh they've dished up through the season, etc - that is my point. It's the system I have a beef with and that is what I have been writing about.

#184 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

I think all that Leeds care about is winning a Grand Final. I think they have a cynical policy. You don't end up in the same position two years running without there being a policy behind it. I think their priority is to get into the top 8 and that's all. So no, I don't think they care about their league position other than to get into the top 8 so that they can aim for the grand final again.

I would like everyone else to follow suit. If they do, we will end up with such a poor quality sport during the season that someone who makes changes might take notice and make the necessary change to nip this one in the bud.


it should be the objective of every team in the competition to reach the grand final.
the whole point of the top eight play offs is that the further down the table you finish the harder it is to reach the GF.
Why would the rhinos want to make it harder for thermselves.
as for thjeir season ticket holders qv each time you turn up at a game there's a good chance that the rhinoos are going to win or perform well. You can't predict when they wont.
I'm no fan of the rhinos, but their achievement in winning the GF deserves some respect, as does a system which produces a true champion side in such superb style at such a wonderful event.
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#185 montgorhino

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:29 PM

Wigan have already won the league. What's this match for?

Or to put it another way: Wire by 6.

Wrong twice

#186 GeordieSaint

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

Wrong twice


He was taking the mick with the first point...

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#187 Johnoco

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:31 PM

I'm sorry but I don't want to follow a team that plays rubbish most of the year but turns it on when they feel like it.

Its not why you buy a season ticket. Sorry.

L'ang ...its not so much that they deliberately make it hard for themselves, more that they know they can afford to take it easy and lose games depending on their importance.

Edited by Johnoco, 06 October 2012 - 10:35 PM.


#188 montgorhino

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:41 PM

Biggest game of my life - Can't wait for Saturday

Leeds are the Champions, the champion side and recently in finals Warrington have the beating of them.

I'm so happy we've made the GF anything else is a bonus - Like I've said since joining this forum.

Can Warrington win?? Yes they can - Leeds 15 Warrington 23

Best wishes to all Leeds fans on here.

Hard luck mate, we played well and absorbed everything that you threw at us, its was a good game and even I, 53 years a Leeds fanatic, cannot believe they have done it again.
Warrington will be there again next year and will learn from the experience. At least we both beat Wigan and Saints to Silverware.
Regards
Marshall
Spain

#189 Saintslass

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

it should be the objective of every team in the competition to reach the grand final.

There is more to the season than the grand final. Some are obsessed by it, like it's the only thing worth achieving, but others are not. I'm not. I think weekly rounds are important, the challenge cup is important, finishing top is an amazing experience and the grand final is important. A team should be aiming to do the best it can on all fronts.

the whole point of the top eight play offs is that the further down the table you finish the harder it is to reach the GF.
Why would the rhinos want to make it harder for thermselves.

Except that is not the case. We finished in third but were only a couple of points ahead of Leeds. And we started our season off very poorly. There is now very little difference between the mid-play off positions because all that has happened is that the standard has dropped. Both Leeds and Warrington this year have played the percentages with performances and players. It's worked for both teams as both have reached both finals. So my guess is that more teams are going to be taking the same approach, thus lowering the quality of the competition further. All that will happen is that the top eight teams will win just enough matches to secure their top eight spot, which is exactly what Leeds and Wire have done. Both teams have tactical coaches and they've both played the system, each to good effect.

I'm no fan of the rhinos, but their achievement in winning the GF deserves some respect,

Absolutely. They are very good at winning grand finals and that's to be commended. And Kevin Sinfield is an extremely good leader.

as does a system which produces a true champion side in such superb style at such a wonderful event.

Nope. The system is a pathetic system that needs changing asap before the standard of the comp slides right into the pit.

Edited by Saintslass, 06 October 2012 - 10:45 PM.


#190 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

Hard luck mate, we played well and absorbed everything that you threw at us, its was a good game and even I, 53 years a Leeds fanatic, cannot believe they have done it again.
Warrington will be there again next year and will learn from the experience. At least we both beat Wigan and Saints to Silverware.
Regards
Marshall
Spain


No you didn't.

#191 Derwent

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:53 PM

I'm sorry but I don't want to follow a team that plays rubbish most of the year but turns it on when they feel like it.

Its not why you buy a season ticket. Sorry.

L'ang ...its not so much that they deliberately make it hard for themselves, more that they know they can afford to take it easy and lose games depending on their importance.


All of the top clubs have done it at some stage (not necessarily this season), Leeds aren't an exception. Warrington have done it themselves this season - London 62 Warrington 18 the week before the CC Final for example.

#192 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:05 PM

There is more to the season than the grand final. Some are obsessed by it, like it's the only thing worth achieving, but others are not. I'm not. I think weekly rounds are important, the challenge cup is important, finishing top is an amazing experience and the grand final is important. A team should be aiming to do the best it can on all fronts.


Except that is not the case. We finished in third but were only a couple of points ahead of Leeds. And we started our season off very poorly. There is now very little difference between the mid-play off positions because all that has happened is that the standard has dropped. Both Leeds and Warrington this year have played the percentages with performances and players. It's worked for both teams as both have reached both finals. So my guess is that more teams are going to be taking the same approach, thus lowering the quality of the competition further. All that will happen is that the top eight teams will win just enough matches to secure their top eight spot, which is exactly what Leeds and Wire have done. Both teams have tactical coaches and they've both played the system, each to good effect.


Absolutely. They are very good at winning grand finals and that's to be commended. And Kevin Sinfield is an extremely good leader.


Nope. The system is a pathetic system that needs changing asap before the standard of the comp slides right into the pit.


I don't know much about performance, but I have been watching and reading about cycling and the ability of cyclists to reach peak performance. It is reasonable for them to aim to peak twice in a year, but impossible to sustain peak performance over a long period. In the top 8 system, if you take home "advantage" out of the equation, and certainly it seems to make much less difference these days, then finishing 5th or 6th, but 5th especially makes the route to final about as easy as 1st or 2nd. Your first game will be against a team from the lower half of the table, and we are no NRL, so that's going to be a gimme, then you play a team coming off a defeat before playing a good team in the semi. If you can secure that position after losing say 6/7 more games than the teams above you, then you could schedule your training accordingly, rotate your squad to your heart's content, and be doing heavy work in mid season without being bothered about the consequences. You could even end up in better shape come this time of year than those teams who adopted a more even approach.
Now that would only be a clever approach if you had a team which was, when push came to shove, able to deliver under pressure when it counted. Which are champion qualities.

It's a shame Leeds didn't win more games in the regular season, to put to bed the widely felt (if this thread is anything to go by) sense of unease. We understand the Cup is a knock out and a lottery to an extent, but the Champions have generally been the best side full stop for most of our league watching days. More than the best side in September. Much food for thought.

#193 Emosi Koloto

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:25 PM

Leeds won with only one Aussie & one Kiwi, hopefully that goes some way to stop the constant urging for teams to sign Aussies.
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#194 HappyDave

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

As a neutral I say well done Leeds! They won fair and square.

Awesome game!! Thoroughly enjoyed it! Definitely there with Wigan vs Saints in 2010 as a Classic.

How bitter can Wigan and Saints fans get? :lol:

Yes, they train to peak in September/October but if you want to win the Super League that's the name of the game. If you're a sore loser, go cry elsewhere. ;)

Edited by HappyDave, 06 October 2012 - 11:29 PM.

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#195 Mk13

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

I wonder how many posters who think a team of rugby league players goes through a season not trying too hard have actually ever played a game.

#196 brooza

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

Insider poisoning???

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/19847144

I saw the photo of Kirke cooking the food and wondered if that was a good idea!
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#197 southstand loiner

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:59 PM

cracking grand final . for my money the best yet as warrington did really give it a go and with a bit more luck would have won but there we go .

as for the debate on finishing 5th or whatever well the rules are there and you know what according to the rules leeds did it right and are now

CHAMPIONS

well done wire a credit to rugby league
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#198 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:18 AM

I told my great friend Paul before Wembley "I am a jinx at wembley in last few years"but I wanted A wembley win for this group and At the time I would have exchanged A GF for a cc final win,but tonight I realise what this period of time means to the club and the city.Sincere wishes and hope you are ok Paul, I am certain your time will come.I was distraught after Wembley again
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

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#199 brooza

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:20 AM

Had I said that then it would be.

The following quote seems to imply you think Leeds aim to finish 5th:

You don't end up in the same position two years running without there being a policy behind it.


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#200 Johnoco

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:16 AM

It's not comparable with cycling or athletics; they are solo sports. Its not about having peaks and troughs or losing games either; that's inevitable.

Its about being half hearted most of the year as long as you make the top 8 somehow. Which IMO is wrong and makes the rest of the season meaningless. Bring back the top 5.