91 replies to this topic

[Trojan]

I'm not particularly fond of ER and if I'm honest that was my first thought too. But I'm beginning to think Saville had things over people in high places and to all intents and purposes *was* fireproof. I bet many people had threatened to expose him but were either intimidated out of it or were threatened with losing their jobs. And he wasn't alone was he? If he went down, several others would come down with him, so they probably ensured people were hushed up.

I now think most of these allegations are true and even if he can't face justice, the victims deserve to be heard.

I agree. I just wonder how many are "victims" and how many are publicity seekers wanting to jump on the bandwagon?
There are always rumours circulating about famous people. I can think of two now about famous RL players, no proof though.

[Johnoco]

I agree. I just wonder how many are "victims" and how many are publicity seekers wanting to jump on the bandwagon?
There are always rumours circulating about famous people. I can think of two now about famous RL players, no proof though.

It's quite probable that some people now making accusations will be after a few quid and/or publicity; that's inevitable. But it doesn't mean most of them aren't true.

I heard stories about him being 'a bit dodgy' years ago but tend to take these rumours with a pinch of salt. But do many and for so long? His statement on Glitter alone makes him look like a paedo. What other sort of person would say 'he did nothing wrong'?

You'll remember very well in the 70's people like Saville or Glitter weren't just famous, they were mega famous and someone accusing them of being paedophiles would have been ran out of town by a pitchfork mob.

The clip posted by Futtocks from his autobiography is particularly bizarre.

[Amber Avenger]

Esther Rantzen says she knew about it but Savile was so powerful she didn't think there was much chance of convincing senior Beeb people about him. She was married to a senior Been official for god's sake, Desmond Wilcox!
I bet she's saying "Jim fixed it for me to get back on telly!"
I must admit Savile always came over as a bit creepy, but why wait until he can't answer back?

Have you seen the footage from the documentary where Rantzen was shown the interviews of the women making these accusations Trojan? She never said she "knew about it", but she had "heard rumours" which is a world of difference. Her reaction is one of the most powerful bits of the show in my opinion and doesn't really reflect what you have posted IMO

Also - I believe ITV approached her rather than the other way around.

I'm not a great fan of her either, but it would take someone very cynical who had actually watched her reaction to say it was anything less than genuine.

Edited by Amber Avenger, 05 October 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[Mumby Magic]

Brian Reade does an interesting piece on the issue in the Daily Mirror (Thursday).

http://www.mirror.co...s-brian-1359118

[gingerjon]

Telegraph on Esther

http://www.telegraph...ies-belief.html#

[Amber Avenger]

Telegraph on Esther

http://www.telegraph...ies-belief.html#

Interesting - I can't say I've seen anything she's said other than the doc. However her initial reaction on that is that her, the BBC and everyone in showbiz is partially responsible for not investigating further at the time and seems genuinly apologetic and makes no excuses for it. The line she is taking now of "one childs word vs his" is a slightly different one than the initial reaction and isn't one that sits easy.

[longboard]

The extract from Saville's autobiography and his comments about Gary Glitter, are pretty damning, in terms of the attitudes to young girls, with the seeming complete absence of empathy and the lack of any moral perspective. In themselves they don't prove anything concerning the alleged offences, but they are the characteristic attitudes of many sex offenders. Of course, it is the kind of information that would be used in a trial, if he was alive and subject to prosecution, to illustrate his attitudes to girls and sex. It is striking that in both extracts there is no consideration of any harm to the young people.

A lot of sex offenders use a power position to commit their crimes, be that a position in society, and/or physical power, and if the information that has emerged about his acts are true, as the extract from the autobiography indicates they may well be, Saville appears to have been well versed in using his power and status.

The attention given to this, the investigations of grooming, exploitation and sexual crimes involving minors and resulting prosecutions, partly evidence the greater understanding of the abuse of minors and also that some societal attitudes have changed. Things will no doubt continue to change, for example in the attitudes to the rape of adults and the prosecution of perpetrators.

There seem to have been implicit and explicit attitudes towards sex with minors among some people in the entertainment industry that many of us would consider repellent, eg in the activities of Saville, G Glitter, Jonathon King, Bill Wyman, members of Led Zeppelin, Roman Polanski....

It wouldn't be a surprise if there is a short lived media trend to investigate allegations of sexual assaults etc by people in the entertainment industry, and other powerful figures.

Grim stuff.

[Northern Sol]

Interesting - I can't say I've seen anything she's said other than the doc. However her initial reaction on that is that her, the BBC and everyone in showbiz is partially responsible for not investigating further at the time and seems genuinly apologetic and makes no excuses for it. The line she is taking now of "one childs word vs his" is a slightly different one than the initial reaction and isn't one that sits easy.

She seems apologetic and yet did anyone ask her to apologise?

Esther is one of those people who seeks attention by proxy. The women's stories are horrible and yet the focus is on how Esther (neither a victim nor involved) sees the situation.

[Northern Sol]

Telegraph on Esther

http://www.telegraph...ies-belief.html#

Tbh this woman seems to take the view that all allegations are true unless proven otherwise. The point about the victoms never having met each other is key in law, it means that the evidence that they give is independent and corroborating details are indicative of guilty (of Saville)

[Shadow]

Can you think of a better source?

Good point well made

[Shadow]

If I were to mention super injunctions being lifted and 70s entertainers.........

Would my post get moderated?

[gingerjon]

.

Edited by gingerjon, 05 October 2012 - 11:17 AM.

[gingerjon]

http://www.thesun.co...ssing-room.html

[Johnoco]

She seems apologetic and yet did anyone ask her to apologise?

Esther is one of those people who seeks attention by proxy. The women's stories are horrible and yet the focus is on how Esther (neither a victim nor involved) sees the situation.

Again, I'm no fan of hers but she is perhaps realising now that she might have done something at the time and it is a source of regret.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure we can all think of things we would have done differently but didn't. Save any criticism for Saville and his cronies.

[Shadow]

Does it involve hamsters?

I have no idea what you mean.

[Johnoco]

Does it involve

Really?

Edited by Johnoco, 05 October 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[gingerjon]

Really?

I was just checking Shads and I were on the same page.

If you edit your post, I'll delete my line.

[Johnoco]

If that's who I think it is, I am glad to say I never found him remotely funny in the slightest and often wondered why he was on TV. This would explain it a lot more.

[MikeW]

never found him remotely funny in the slightest and often wondered why he was on TV.

Is this part of the issue regarding who is and isn't being dragged out from the seventies as a paedophile? Bad comic, dead DJ with lunatic tendencies - string em up. Rock star, or player of punk "classics" on the wireless- keep a lid on it still. While Jimmy Savile made his actions obvious by writing them in his autobiography in 1973, he never made it as obvious as marrying one of his victims. On Twitter there are people praying that a certain comic with a friend called Chalkie gets implicated in some way.

[Johnoco]

Is this part of the issue regarding who is and isn't being dragged out from the seventies as a paedophile? Bad comic, dead DJ with lunatic tendencies - string em up. Rock star, or player of punk "classics" on the wireless- keep a lid on it still. While Jimmy Savile made his actions obvious by writing them in his autobiography in 1973, he never made it as obvious as marrying one of his victims. On Twitter there are people praying that a certain comic with a friend called Chalkie gets implicated in some way.

Yeah, that's exactly the reasoning behind it.

Not sure where you are coming from anyway. Disliking someone is not the same thing as you state here...can you please explain what you are saying?

Edited by Johnoco, 05 October 2012 - 11:44 AM.