206 replies to this topic

[nadera78]

The thing about the internet is it often makes extreme views seem more common than they really are!

That said WOW! I've often thought American's need educating in the real definition of the terms communist and socialist. I wonder what would happen if they got a socialist like Gordon Brown in charge!

And John yes Florida went to Obama in the end.

Gordon Brown was a socialist?

[RidingPie]

Gordon Brown was a socialist?

More so than Obama

[Martyn Sadler]

A little follow-up - Eric Dondero Q & A.

There are plenty of nutters on both sides of the political divide in the USA.

Check out Michael Moore's video in support of Obama - A Message from the Greatest Generation.



With friends like that, who needs etc...?

[gingerjon]

There are plenty of nutters on both sides of the political divide in the USA.

Check out Michael Moore's video in support of Obama - A Message from the Greatest Generation.



With friends like that, who needs etc...?

That's brilliant. People like that deserve many, many rounds of applause.

Makes me sad that Florida's cluster######ery didn't give the election to Romney as it now means he avoids a cockpunch.

[nadera78]

More so than Obama

Well that's not true, but it's also not what you said. You claimed Brown was a socialist. Which isn't true either.

[RidingPie]

Well that's not true, but it's also not what you said. You claimed Brown was a socialist. Which isn't true either.

Fair enough. Let me ask you this? Does he consider himself a socialist?

[JohnM]

OH, yes. And he should know. In 1975 he advocated “a phased extension of public control under workers’ self-management and the prioritising of social needs by the communities themselves”. He called for “a planned economy” and for “workers’ power”, identifying himself with “Scotland’s socialist pioneers, Hardie, Smillie, Maxton, Maclean, Gallacher, Wheatley and others”—a pantheon that included both revolutionary and reformist socialists. What was needed was “a positive commitment to creating a socialist society”

see International Socialism

[Methven Hornet]

A little follow-up - Eric Dondero Q & A.

And he wonders why the Republicans can't get back in the White House?

[Methven Hornet]

There are plenty of nutters on both sides of the political divide in the USA.

Check out Michael Moore's video in support of Obama - A Message from the Greatest Generation.



With friends like that, who needs etc...?

Yes. Election stealing. Were the Republicans planning to do that again in the event of a close result? Is that what the Florida delay is all about?

[gingerjon]

Yes. Election stealing. Were the Republicans planning to do that again in the event of a close result? Is that what the Florida delay is all about?

There have been some quite devious tactics in place - the Democrats aren't entirely blameless but systematic party-political disenfranchisement seems to have been a Republican speciality this time around.

Florida's delay is because of slow counting and a high number of absentee and armed forces votes.

[nadera78]

OH, yes. And he should know. In 1975 he advocated “a phased extension of public control under workers’ self-management and the prioritising of social needs by the communities themselves”. He called for “a planned economy” and for “workers’ power”, identifying himself with “Scotland’s socialist pioneers, Hardie, Smillie, Maxton, Maclean, Gallacher, Wheatley and others”—a pantheon that included both revolutionary and reformist socialists. What was needed was “a positive commitment to creating a socialist society”

see International Socialism

The things said in 1975 and the things done in office from 1997 - 2010 were so far apart that they might as well have come from different people.

[JohnM]

You are right...they might have. They didn't though, unless he sacrificed his political convictions for the rewards of high office. Nah...a politician would never do that, would he?


oops..here he is in 2007. see http://www.socialist...?ArticleID=1845

The first meeting of the SI Commission for a Sustainable World Society – the body established to address the global environmental agenda, climate change and the issues of governance required to deal with these common challenges - took place at 10 Downing Street on Monday 19 November, hosted by Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Leader of the British Labour Party, where members of the Commission, the President and Secretary General of the Socialist International, along with Ministers from the British government, took part in an exchange of views.

Edited by JohnM, 09 November 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[Matt J]

Gordon Brown was a socialist?

In the US, Hitler's socialist #polarisation.

[Severus]

In the US, Hitler's socialist #polarisation.

Erm, yes.

[Trojan]

You are right...they might have. They didn't though, unless he sacrificed his political convictions for the rewards of high office. Nah...a politician would never do that, would he?

Keith Joseph did. A minister in the Heath government and the Thatcher government he spent the intervening years attacking the very policies he'd been advocating between 1970 & 1974. For that matter so did Thatcher.
Major pretended to be a loyal Thatcherite until he became PM and then set about dismantling Thatcherism and clearing up the mess left by her and Lawson.
Anyway Romney and Republicans lost basically because they alientated too many women, black and Hispanic voters. According to a report I've just been reading the only black face at their "victory bash" in Boston was in the band.

Edited by Trojan, 10 November 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[JohnM]

Gordon Brown claims to be a socialist. As socialists never lie, then Brown must be a socialist.

[JohnM]

. According to a report I've just been reading

The Militant doesn't count.

[Northern Sol]

Keith Joseph did. A minister in the Heath government and the Thatcher government he spent the intervening years attacking the very policies he'd been advocating between 1970 & 1974. For that matter so did Thatcher.
Major pretended to be a loyal Thatcherite until he became PM and then set about dismantling Thatcherism and clearing up the mess left by her and Lawson.
Anyway Romney and Republicans lost basically because they alientated too many women, black and Hispanic voters. According to a report I've just been reading the only black face at their "victory bash" in Boston was in the band.

There is no evidence that women don't vote Republican.

I'm not sure "alienation" has much to do with it. Blacks and hispanics predominantly vote democrat regardless of who the candidates are. You might as well say that past democrat candidates alienated WASPs and Jews.

[Trojan]

The Militant doesn't count.

It was the Guardian John, same difference as far as you're concerned I suppose. You must be somewhere to the right of Jabba the Hutt

[Trojan]

There is no evidence that women don't vote Republican.

I'm not sure "alienation" has much to do with it. Blacks and hispanics predominantly vote democrat regardless of who the candidates are. You might as well say that past democrat candidates alienated WASPs and Jews.

There was a report on Radio 4 yesterday. Cuban Americans - traditionally Republican voters have changed sides. One was quoted as saying - "why shouldn't I vote Democrat? They've done more for me than the Republicans ever have."
Your point about WASPS and Jews is relevant of course, but more to the point is the fact that Spannish speaking Americans are becoming a very sizeable minority in the US, and so far the Republicans seem to have gone out of their way to upset them. - same goes for women for that matter. The quotes on rape and their attitude to abortion won't have helped their case.
Labour lost in 1979 & 83 with the left saying we lost because we weren't left wing enough. The Tories lost in 1997, 2001 & 2005 with the right saying wwe weren't right wing enough. Cameron learned the lesson. Unfortunately once he got into Downing Street he promptly forgot it.