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Eagles for SL


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#221 RP London

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:16 PM

To be fair, Sheffield wouldn't have to "find extra money" to run Academies - they already do that on their Championship turnover.


Thats very true.. worse case it will be a but more expensive but not going to be in the realms of starting one from scratch..

I dont think eagles are ready for it i really dont.. i think they are 1 period away from it.. i think 2018 is a better bet.. but i dont see the negativity on here being fair on them.. and i could understand if the RFL took a risk IF all the documents add up etc.. but as i say i dont think they are right for it yet.. but they are not as far off as some would have us imagine.

#222 Griff

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:19 PM

Sheffield Eagles need to build up their crowds to 3000+

Until that happens, forget $uperleague.
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#223 RP London

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

Sheffield Eagles need to build up their crowds to 3000+

Until that happens, forget $uperleague.


I can certainly see that being the word from the RFL and should be.. but i can also see them getting on on less if other things fall into place.. but yes as an aim that would be good.

#224 The Parksider

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

Its true that the salary cap for all SL clubs is the same ceiling level but that is where the similarities end. HKR are as different to Cas as they are to Wigan as they are to Sheffield.


Shaun,

You need to state what the differences are. The loss making clubs all have fans who buy tickets, shops that sell shirts, sponsors who buy boxes, they all get the same SKY money, they all buy in the same services, they all have the same sort of staff, they all have to run academies.

They all need over £4,000,000 a year to operate.

They've either got it or they haven't....

#225 The Parksider

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

If they were given a SL place, with the Sky money, and if they were able to attract some shareholders, investors, even on a small scale, I would not bet against them pulling it off.


I would because they would be £2,500,000 a season off what Les Catalans reported budget is.

#226 West Country Eagle

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:55 PM

Massive sense of Deja-Vu about this thread. Hasn't it been the same arguments for 12 pages?

All the Sheffield fans that have commented on this thread have said the same thing: we're not ready. Until the point that we are, speculating is irrelevant.

That said, there are some positive signs. There's been much talk about Sheffield not producing Super League standard players. This is true, but there are good signs. Look at the results of the Scholarship side this year; they've beaten the scholarship sides of a number of SL clubs are pushed a load of others close. The senior academy isn't doing quite as well, but they're mostly competitive. There have also been a number of Sheffield kids in and around the first team squad. Most of these haven't broken through to be regulars, but have played some Championship and NR club gains. It could take years for the Eagles to put out a first team with a high proportion of scholarship and academy graduates, but there are more coming through now than when the Eagles were in Super League. In those days, many of the academy/second team players didn't come from the South Yorkshire area; now, most are either identified via schools work, taken from local clubs (eg Hillsborough, Hoyland etc) or come from the productive midlands program (not run by the Eagles, but certainly monitored closely).

I can understand the frustration of those involved at the club with regards to their achievements not being recognised. However, this is a problem for other ambitious/forward-thinking Championship clubs as well (Fev being the most obvious example).

The Eagles have done terrifically well to get this far, given the fall-out from the merger in '99. It's a great story, and one that will be told in full one of these days. Watch this space…
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#227 The Parksider

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:03 PM

I can understand the frustration of those involved at the club with regards to their achievements not being recognised. However, this is a problem for other ambitious/forward-thinking Championship clubs as well (Fev being the most obvious example).

The Eagles have done terrifically well to get this far, given the fall-out from the merger in '99. It's a great story, and one that will be told in full one of these days. Watch this space…


It's an incredible story right from the start. Thanks for your views.

I've no doubt Sheffield will turn out Superleague players if they continue to run their junior system.

The Featherstone analogy is important and so true, Featherstone/Pontefract have turned out ten Superleague players currently in the starting XV11's of SL clubs.

And deja vu is also the argument that what's the point in having a junior system if richer clubs simply take the best from you.

Sheffield need the money is the bottom line, and they are a couple of million adrift.

#228 Griff

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:16 PM

Turning to a slightly different point, I'm sure the ideal we'd all like to see is a second tier of financially and structurally strong clubs, able and willing to take the place of the incumbent $uperleague clubs.

Given that and given that Parky's been banging on about player supply for much of this thread, it seems strange to me that the RFL should actively discourage Championship sides from running Reserve Grade and junior sides.

Surely the RFL needs to encourage Championship clubs to progress.
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#229 The Parksider

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

Turning to a slightly different point, I'm sure the ideal we'd all like to see is a second tier of financially and structurally strong clubs, able and willing to take the place of the incumbent $uperleague clubs.

Given that and given that Parky's been banging on about player supply for much of this thread, it seems strange to me that the RFL should actively discourage Championship sides from running Reserve Grade and junior sides.

Surely the RFL needs to encourage Championship clubs to progress.


Go back to 1995-6 and you will find out what the RFL really wants to encourage ;)

#230 Griff

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:30 PM

Go back to 1995-6 and you will find out what the RFL really wants to encourage ;)


Well, that won't work.

Every pyramid needs a base wider than its apex.
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#231 keighley

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:39 PM

Yes i see where you are coming from on this and i dont necessarily disagree.. but to argue the other side.. the biggest problem with this is that no one knows until the last moment whether they are up or down.. there is a relagation fight but even if you lose it you may still stay up, that is not a satisfactory situation for any club to plan for the next season either.. do they make redundancies to staff and players, who do they recruit and what league are they in, players will leave while they are waiting for who wins the grand final.


To be honest i dont see an ideal world scenario whilst there is such a big gap between divisions that you cannot have straight P&R.... I have my own thoughts but thats not really or tis thread but either way someone will always be upset..

Sheffield have ticked a box so if they want to apply let them.. they may not make it but let them apply otherwise this goes further and further into farce.


And I can see where you are coming from. The uncertainty about which division you might be in could create recruitment problems and planning problems with not knowing exactly what TV money you might or might not be getting.

I have, on many occasions, advocated SL expansion by going to conferences but the problem with that has always been the extra money necessary to fund more SL teams.

The current drive to create feeder teams from the championships is going to marginalise many of those teams leaving a small number of stand alone clubs some of whom might, like the Eagles, be, at some point, ready for SL. There needs to be some avenue for them to progress because the feeder teams will make the CC just like an A team league. I think fan interest and loyalty will just die off even more than it has already done at that level.


#232 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

people go on about spending hte full cap, then we expect clubs not to spend any extra money... there would be higher revenues but not necessarily bigger crowds straight away (super league does not ipso facto equal crowds).. they may spend it wisely but its still money spent.. They may win as many as widnes but they would no doubt still go down and become a yo yo club and that is where the money issues arise, its not necessarily the issue if you stay in as you continue to have the money bit if you go down with players on wages or having to rip the entire club apart that is when it all goes wrong and clubs go under.


Would you be in favour of the best team on the pitch being promoted every 3 years (if they meet other standards)? This is what I'm mainly advocating as an initial return to P&R

#233 Pottsy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

Am I ?

The point is that any club could get off their backsides and earn this money.


The point is/was that for a club/region that apparently isn't supported by the RFL, they don't appear to have done badly out of it.

#234 Griff

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:09 PM

The point is/was that for a club/region that apparently isn't supported by the RFL, they don't appear to have done badly out of it.


Appearances can be deceptive.
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#235 Griff

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:13 PM

Would you be in favour of the best team on the pitch being promoted every 3 years (if they meet other standards)? This is what I'm mainly advocating as an initial return to P&R


There's a very big "if" in there.

Actually, that's worse than the current option, which is any one of three, four - maybe more - teams could be promoted - if they meet other standards. The RFL have said that a minimum of one team will go up - if they meet other standards.

It's the meeting other standards that's the sticking point - not playing performances.
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#236 Northern Sol

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:39 PM

Go back to 1995-6 and you will find out what the RFL really wants to encourage ;)


Remind me what Mo Lindsay's current role is within the RFL.

#237 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:53 PM

There's a very big "if" in there.

Actually, that's worse than the current option, which is any one of three, four - maybe more - teams could be promoted - if they meet other standards. The RFL have said that a minimum of one team will go up - if they meet other standards.

It's the meeting other standards that's the sticking point - not playing performances.


How on Earth can it be worse? The current system renders the matches to be meaningless once you tick the "on pitch box". It also means smaller town clubs that are close to many other SL teams are at a major disadvantage when the panel chooses. This further puts fans off. To have a panel decide promotion is ludicrous and makes the whole idea of winning a joke. Its like some loony left competition from the 1980s where winning was banned. Fans want to know where they stand by clear results

#238 Griff

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:06 PM

How on Earth can it be worse?


It's worse because it means only one club can go up. If they don't meet the standards, nobody goes up.

The current system is than one of (probably) four clubs will go up - subject, of course, to meeting standards. If your best club doesn't meet the standards, the others still have a punt.

How on Earth can one club having a chance be better than four ? :lol:
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#239 keighley

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:22 PM

It's worse because it means only one club can go up. If they don't meet the standards, nobody goes up.

The current system is than one of (probably) four clubs will go up - subject, of course, to meeting standards. If your best club doesn't meet the standards, the others still have a punt.

How on Earth can one club having a chance be better than four ? :lol:


Your post is true.However, do you think they will still guarantee a Championship Club a SL place for the following licencing period.? If they do, it will almost certainly be given to the SL club ejected for the Championship team this time around in my opinion.

#240 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:51 PM

It's worse because it means only one club can go up. If they don't meet the standards, nobody goes up.

The current system is than one of (probably) four clubs will go up - subject, of course, to meeting standards. If your best club doesn't meet the standards, the others still have a punt.

How on Earth can one club having a chance be better than four ? :lol:


No it doesnt mean that at all - the next best team meeting criteria should and would go up.

Crowds will never be good if a panel decides the club to go up as it castrates the match as a meaningful spectacle.




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