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Eagles for SL


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#321 keighley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:40 PM

Someone suggested Eagles must spend a few hundred grand on wages already and once given over a £Million by SKY with higher crowds they will be able to afford the salary cap. So why can't they compete? Why do they need all this money?

Then Oiseau said Les Catalans plan to spend £5.6M in Superleague this coming year.

Clearly the wage bill is not all a club need to cover in SL

There ara couple of excellent accountants on her with a handle on the difference between what you need in SL to compete and what you need in the CC.

Whatever way you look at it the difference is very large...........

All I ask people to do is tell me how Sheffield will cover it. Mr. Keighley please note.....


The Sheffield club feel that they can progress to the point of applying for a SL licence in the future, I am sure they have their own accountants and financial plans to deal with the level of finance needed for SL. If they don't, obviously they won't get a licence .
You, as a poster on a chat board are dogmatic that this is unachievable. I, as a poster on a chat board, take the opposite view, based on this clubs forward progress since their reformation, their stated ambitions, and my belief in the admisistration in place at that club. I cannot tell you how they will achieve this and you cannot tell me that they will not because you nor I have the inside information necessary to prove our opposing views.

Obviously, neither one of us has the inside information, available to the board of Sheffield Eagles. My best take on the situation is that they are a good candidate for SL IF they get finacing and crowds in place. I have never said they should be in SL on any other conditions. You, as far as I can tell, are of the opinion that there will never be the financing, never be the crowds, never be the player development EVER to allow Sheffield to get a SL licence.

Time will tell. In my opinion, you are too negative and write them off based on conditions existing right now and do not give them any credence to achieve the required standards going forward.

You take the same stance in regards to Halifax, Featherstone, Hull KR and Castleford and any other possible candidates. Although Wakefield, Huddersfield, Widnes and indeed, Perpignan, came from positions of lower league insignificance with lowly crowds and financing to their present positions, you absolutely, resolutely refuse to countenance any club being able to do so in the future. I think some teams will qualify for a licence and Sheffield might be one of them. I think you are too defensive of the status quo and too negative of teams ability to get themselves organised and financed to join SL.

Anyway, time will tell which one of us is correct.

#322 keighley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

Just to pick you up on this one

When Wigan got relegated the actually had a small increase in average attendance, the average for the relegated season for div 1 was 5,110 and div 2 was 2,009, Wigan averaged 4,693. On returning to Div 1 Wigan's attendances went up to 5,497 against an average of 5,268 for that division.

Sheffield's last SL average was 3,422 against a division average of 7,555 in their next season, in the Premiership their crowds fell to 1,214 against a divisional average of 1,456.

Using Wigan as a comparison is an utter nonsense


Really, according to my math the difference between 4,693 and 3422 is 1,271. Not a huge figure is it. I believe the point I was making was that any team, when bereft of finance and success can sink to the depths and that when the mighty Wigan, the Man U of RL, got themselves to that point their attendances fell to a point not much higher than Sheffield. I feel that is a vaild comparison given the point I was making. Over time Wigan have had much larger crowds than in this particularly low point in their history but it is an example of what can happen when things deteriorate in an organisation.

#323 Marauder

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

You said Ian Kirke came from the Donny amateur game??

Sheffield have a couple of Doncaster lads playing for them and I also believe Doncaster also have a few who have all (including Kirke) come through the Toll Bar club.

Junior development is now starting to happen at the other two Doncaster amateur clubs so hopefully you will see more players going to the pro game.

Edited by Marauder, 16 October 2012 - 01:07 PM.

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#324 tim2

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:23 PM

I can see Parky's point about player supply but it's being overplayed. Sheffield have always looked further afield for players. In the mid eighties they signed Johnny Glancy and Mark Aston from Selby when no-one was looking out there.

A couple of months ago they signed two players from Northampton and one from Telford. Exactly who else is looking out there ?


Oddly enough, Wigan signed a player from Telford and Wakefield signed one from Nottingham for their scholarships. Quins also look at the Midlands. The Eagles are by no means the only pro side scouting the region.
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#325 Griff

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

So - shock, horror - even Wigan are looking outside their own doorstep.

Right - that's the end of that argument then. :lol:
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#326 keighley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:42 PM

Don't Wigan have two or three Welsh ex juniors in their first etam squad? If so, sacrilege.

#327 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:58 PM

Where do you think players come from if not the amateur game?

Jack Howieson (Hemel Stags) is a good example in the current side. Does he count? Or have Sheffield got to go trawling the streets of Darnall asking if anyone fancies being a Super League player?


No they have to set up a player production system that brings predominantly local kids through their system and turns them into professional players. I'd guess Workington could produce a few if they had the money to be in Superleague.

However they ain't got the fans, so they don't have the money, and so there'll be no player production system underpinning a successful SL side in Workington either.

So if someone deadly rich comes along I hope they put their money into West Cumbria as it'll be a better bet for developing local kids than Sheffield, as it's a big area for junior ARL.

And that's the point.

It's not a criticism it's a reality.

#328 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

Oddly enough, Wigan signed a player from Telford and Wakefield signed one from Nottingham for their scholarships. Quins also look at the Midlands. The Eagles are by no means the only pro side scouting the region.


This is why I believe Sheffield have a problem setting up an academy.

If they do it in the championship every quality young pro will move on like Zac Hardaker.

If they do it in SL clubs who also have motorways heading into the Midlands will be wanting the same players Sheffield want.

And with no money Sheffield won't get them.

#329 Griff

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

This is why I believe Sheffield have a problem setting up an academy.

If they do it in the championship every quality young pro will move on like Zac Hardaker.

If they do it in SL clubs who also have motorways heading into the Midlands will be wanting the same players Sheffield want.

And with no money Sheffield won't get them.


Agreed - the collapse of the transfer system means the big clubs get bigger and the small clubs get nowhere.
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#330 tim2

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:34 PM

No they have to set up a player production system that brings predominantly local kids through their system and turns them into professional players. I'd guess Workington could produce a few if they had the money to be in Superleague.

However they ain't got the fans, so they don't have the money, and so there'll be no player production system underpinning a successful SL side in Workington either.

So if someone deadly rich comes along I hope they put their money into West Cumbria as it'll be a better bet for developing local kids than Sheffield, as it's a big area for junior ARL.

And that's the point.

It's not a criticism it's a reality.


It's a bit early to say whether the current scheme is working or not. It's basically only been running for a couple of years (including a short time where they used Hillsborough in the NYL as an academy equivalent) and they've signed several players already. The U19s are going well and next year's U16 and U15 scholarships have a high proportion of local players. I would still agree that the local amateur player base is way too small.
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#331 MidlandsRugbyLeague

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:48 PM

I can see Parky's point about player supply but it's being overplayed. Sheffield have always looked further afield for players. In the mid eighties they signed Johnny Glancy and Mark Aston from Selby when no-one was looking out there.

A couple of months ago they signed two players from Northampton and one from Telford. Exactly who else is looking out there ?


London and Wigan / Warrington respectively.

#332 Padge

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:50 PM

"I'd be surprised if anyone is spending less than us. I'm not a millionaire sugar daddy chucking money in the pot"
Andrew Glover, League Express 15th October 2012 exploding the myth that he's loaded.

I think he's trying to say that a well run club can indeed hack it in SL without a sugar daddy.

They can but the key is the number of people paying to go through the turnstiles,

Sheffields best season was around 4.5k in a season with an average of around 7.5k if memory serves. Of course the figure needed is offset by sponsorship and corporate entertainment, however it would be amazing if Sheffield could pull in sponsorship deals and corporate sales that are so much better than the likes of Leeds, Wigan, Saints etc that they can survive on crowds of half- the average, Bradford couldn't hack it with around 75-80% of average.

I am not saying Sheffield or any other club can't manage it, but people really have be realistic about how much of a real challenge it is and how much time it could take.

Edited by Padge, 16 October 2012 - 05:51 PM.


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#333 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

The Sheffield club feel that they can progress to the point of applying for a SL licence in the future, I am sure they have their own accountants and financial plans to deal with the level of finance needed for SL. I cannot tell you how they will achieve this and you cannot tell me that they will not because you nor I have the inside information necessary to prove our opposing views.

Wrong

John Whaling on behalf of the board of directors at Sheffield said the club "can't do everything because we are struggling with finance due to a downturn in the corporate market" . He appealed to the RFL for investment to "publicise the game in Sheffield and help grow Eagles crowds".

My view is they are badly lacking money and it's backed up by their own spokesperson on behalf of the board of directors.

I just don't dream these things up, I read and listen intently to what is said and what actually happens.

#334 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:19 PM

Time will tell which one of us is correct.


It took 4 hours and 40 minutes. Sheffield are skint by their own admission.

#335 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

You are too negative and write them off based on conditions existing right now and do not give them any credence to achieve the required standards going forward.


Mr. Whaling has the begging bowl out in terms of how he wants the club to go forward ;)

Edited by The Parksider, 16 October 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#336 Padge

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

Agreed - the collapse of the transfer system means the big clubs get bigger and the small clubs get nowhere.

The transfer system didn't collapse, it was declared illegal, probably when someone in the Sports Ministry twigged the slave trade had been abolished.

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#337 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:41 PM

The transfer system didn't collapse, it was declared illegal, probably when someone in the Sports Ministry twigged the slave trade had been abolished.


Wasnt it the Bosman ruling?

#338 Northern Sol

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:47 PM

It took 4 hours and 40 minutes. Sheffield are skint by their own admission.


Is this a permanent situation?

#339 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:36 PM

Is this a permanent situation?


I don't know, but I'm not surprised that there's little money in the coffers at the mo, even running a top Championship club is a costly business and 1600 fans or whatever don't provide that great an income..

#340 keighley

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:40 PM

Wrong

John Whaling on behalf of the board of directors at Sheffield said the club "can't do everything because we are struggling with finance due to a downturn in the corporate market" . He appealed to the RFL for investment to "publicise the game in Sheffield and help grow Eagles crowds".

My view is they are badly lacking money and it's backed up by their own spokesperson on behalf of the board of directors.

I just don't dream these things up, I read and listen intently to what is said and what actually happens.


The salient part of my post, which you ignored was " in the future". If you feel that this recession is never ending then OK you are correct.