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Eagles for SL


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#41 The Parksider

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:30 PM

I'd keep an eye on Doncaster if they can build bridges with the amateur clubs in the area........


If only mate. Amateur base too small as is the fan base.

#42 The Parksider

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

I don't know


Nor do I.

Open question to all,

Where will Sheffield Eagles get their money, players and fans from?

#43 Jimmy B

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:13 PM

Quote from Keighley.
"A poster on here stated that Sheffield failed once in SL, why should they be given a second chance".



I think you will find the post was worded as below - quite different to what you are saying.

"Hasn't a Sheffield club already had a go in Super League ? - and failed". "Why would any new attempt be different" ?

Edited by Jimmy B, 05 October 2012 - 08:16 PM.

Lets not forget, Featherstone Rovers is a RUGBY club.

#44 Johnoco

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:16 PM

Carch 22. They dont get bigger crowds because they declared that they didnt want to go up -and even if they did there is no definite promotion which puts people off going to regular games because they are meaningless once youve ticked a box. Its then down to the panel of experts to choose. This really puts off your general man on the street.

If Sheffield do declare interest crowds might pick up because if they did get over 2500 gates theyd be a shoe-in - because of them being a semi expansion city club. Unfortunately fans of town clubs in NL 1 are disadvantaged in this respect.

I would love to see the Eagles in SL anyway

Yes, some of what you say is true but to really make a long lasting impression in Sheffield, they will need more than the odd good season and occasional crack at the big time. They need to get more fans but that's not easy when Wednesday or United are close to religion for many.

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#45 RSN

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:53 PM

Nor do I.

Open question to all,

Where will Sheffield Eagles get their money, players and fans from?


Double post

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 05 October 2012 - 11:05 PM.


#46 RSN

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Nor do I.

Open question to all,

Where will Sheffield Eagles get their money, players and fans from?


Id imagine their fans would be from sheffield mainly which would then bring in the money which would be used to buy players and develop their own. Problem is its hard to sell a product which isn't goong to get any better for along time with licensing in place. Most new fans want to see success instantly and don't support on team saying they'll be watching in 6 years time because that's when the youth structure and business plan to be good enough to get into SL.

That's basically 95% of Lobbys posts on this forum into 100 words or so.

#47 Rob

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

Hasn't a Sheffield club already had a go in Super League ? - and failed. Why would any new attempt be different ?


Sorry to be pedantic, but....I think you will find that the Sheffield club to which you refer is still in Superleague and throughout the year pulled an aggregate attendance of 100,000+ and finished in the play-off positions...not exactly failure

http://wck2.companie...932/compdetails

They simply changed names!

#48 Johnoco

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:36 PM

Id imagine their fans would be from sheffield mainly which would then bring in the money which would be used to buy players and develop their own. Problem is its hard to sell a product which isn't goong to get any better for along time with licensing in place. Most new fans want to see success instantly and don't support on team saying they'll be watching in 6 years time because that's when the youth structure and business plan to be good enough to get into SL.

That's basically 95% of Lobbys posts on this forum into 100 words or so.


But actually, they do. Almost every massive sports club in the world started with a few people trying to do something for fun or for their local community, not for success. Success and riches followed on from that, not the other way round.

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#49 LOWFIELD

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:50 AM

Danny is a Barnsley lad Phil as you know- Came to the game through Hoyland and then on to Siddal and Halifax. He did a good job of coaching King Cross U16s the other year as well


So is Mitch Stringer nothing to do with the Eagles he played for and coached Hoyland

#50 Pottsy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

Could be good thing. A big city with an existing rugby league core. Two mediocre soccer teams and no union to speak of. (Just) outside the heartlands so no problems


Is there a 'rugby league core' in Sheffield? I must have missed it whilst I was living there. Perhaps you're referring to the ONE amateur club in the entire city. I guess that's a 'core.'

If Sheffield does want a franchise at some point then it needs to look long term and aim to plant deep roots (ie, more than one grassroots club!) or it's doomed to fail.

The two "mediocre soccer clubs" have loyal and fanatical support and, although the people of Sheffield will support other minority sports such as ice hockey in reasonable numbers, rugby league (or more specifically the Eagles) needs to take off the fur coat and put on some knickers.

#51 Pottsy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

Would that be a good thing for Doncaster RL?


What a silly question Gavin! Are you questioning the financial might and worldwide pulling power of Doncaster Rovers FC?

#52 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:45 AM

With the exception of a few teams most SL teams seem to rely on a sugar daddy or are in financial difficulties. On this basis Sheffield would not meet SL criteria....

#53 Jimmy B

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:59 AM

Sorry to be pedantic, but....I think you will find that the Sheffield club to which you refer is still in Superleague and throughout the year pulled an aggregate attendance of 100,000+ and finished in the play-off positions...not exactly failure

http://wck2.companie...932/compdetails

They simply changed names!

Yes you are absolutely right but the crux of the matter is that they no longer play in Sheffield. Do you think they could have survived as a SL club had they remained in Sheffield ?

Edited by Jimmy B, 06 October 2012 - 07:59 AM.

Lets not forget, Featherstone Rovers is a RUGBY club.

#54 The Parksider

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

1. Is there a 'rugby league core' in Sheffield? I must have missed it whilst I was living there. Perhaps you're referring to the ONE amateur club in the entire city. I guess that's a 'core.'

2. If Sheffield does want a franchise at some point then it needs to look long term and aim to plant deep roots (ie, more than one grassroots club!) or it's doomed to fail.

3. The two "mediocre soccer clubs" have loyal and fanatical support....


1. With little amateur base, no big money man, and a fanbase that numbered 4600 last time they were doing well in SL it doesn't take a genius to work out they are well short of Superleague today.

2. Johnoco says "Almost every massive sports club in the world started with a few people trying to do something for fun or for their local community, not for success" and indeed many of our big clubs started like that. It's no coincidence most of our successful SL clubs have roots well in excess of 100 years and several operate in non top class-soccer areas.

3. If Eagles had started about 1850 they may have had a chance to grow as Johnoco illustrates, but to try to grow big enough roots between two giant soccer clubs like United and Wednesday, with their fanatical support....well it's not going to happen, and more so the 30 year record is there. It hasn't happened. Soccer got there first big time.

Why do clubs with no chance of competing in SL apply? I can only think it's a way of keeping the fans on board and an impetus going. Better to be rejected by the evil RFL/SLE than be promoted and be thrashed every week and fail due to your own shortcomings. After RFL/SLE rejection you can always bleat about how unfair it all was (even though you know you had no money) until the RFL give you a call to tell you to shut up. And shut up the likes of Leigh and Fax did.

I did have high hopes the Championship could have become a tremendous vibrant regional 14 club league that clubs would be proud to be in and that clubs would be proud to develop and enjoy but this feeder club thing may have stuffed that so I have great sympathy for the smaller clubs but reality is reality.

#55 Northern Sol

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

4,600 is far more than Broncos and Sheffield, as you have observed in the past, isn't that far from West Yorkshire. I don't get the parochial insistence that players need to come from South Yorkshire. Is there a big West vs South Yorks feud?

At present Sheffield probably fall short but I can't imagine why some seem to think this a permanent thing.

#56 Marauder

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:01 AM

What a silly question Gavin! Are you questioning the financial might and worldwide pulling power of Doncaster Rovers FC?

Doncaster Rovers have some very rich men on their board of directors, what they realised when they moved the club from the conference upwards was there potential based on their support through the gates, they have basically imposed and managed their own salary cap from day one and John Ryan openly stated at the outset the highest he believed the club could operate with comfort was the championship.

Rovers secured a 99 Year operating lease from D M B C this year to manage the Keepmoat and John Ryan now whats to improve operating results of the stadium, with this the Rovers Directors have been in talks with all the present user groups and others, they (Rovers Directors) understand that they will need to invest in the Dons to try and get more people to their home games.

Will this work who knows but Ryan and the rest of the Rovers directors seem to think it's going to be worth a shot.
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#57 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:03 AM

1. With little amateur base, no big money man, and a fanbase that numbered 4600 last time they were doing well in SL it doesn't take a genius to work out they are well short of Superleague today.

2. Johnoco says "Almost every massive sports club in the world started with a few people trying to do something for fun or for their local community, not for success" and indeed many of our big clubs started like that. It's no coincidence most of our successful SL clubs have roots well in excess of 100 years and several operate in non top class-soccer areas.

3. If Eagles had started about 1850 they may have had a chance to grow as Johnoco illustrates, but to try to grow big enough roots between two giant soccer clubs like United and Wednesday, with their fanatical support....well it's not going to happen, and more so the 30 year record is there. It hasn't happened. Soccer got there first big time.

Why do clubs with no chance of competing in SL apply? I can only think it's a way of keeping the fans on board and an impetus going. Better to be rejected by the evil RFL/SLE than be promoted and be thrashed every week and fail due to your own shortcomings. After RFL/SLE rejection you can always bleat about how unfair it all was (even though you know you had no money) until the RFL give you a call to tell you to shut up. And shut up the likes of Leigh and Fax did.

I did have high hopes the Championship could have become a tremendous vibrant regional 14 club league that clubs would be proud to be in and that clubs would be proud to develop and enjoy but this feeder club thing may have stuffed that so I have great sympathy for the smaller clubs but reality is reality.

You're absolutely right Parky. I despair, I really do. Sheffield sold 250 tickets for last season's GF and not many more this season on the evidence of the crowd figure. But hey, they're in a big city, get them in SL. Not a cat in hell's chance of succeeding. We never learn, do we?
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#58 tim2

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:22 AM

Is there a 'rugby league core' in Sheffield? I must have missed it whilst I was living there. Perhaps you're referring to the ONE amateur club in the entire city. I guess that's a 'core.'

If Sheffield does want a franchise at some point then it needs to look long term and aim to plant deep roots (ie, more than one grassroots club!) or it's doomed to fail.

The two "mediocre soccer clubs" have loyal and fanatical support and, although the people of Sheffield will support other minority sports such as ice hockey in reasonable numbers, rugby league (or more specifically the Eagles) needs to take off the fur coat and put on some knickers.


Pretty accurate. The reality of the local player base (stretching from Derbyshire up to Barnsley) is that there are at most 8 amateur open age sides, most of which are social sides. Five clubs with juniors, total number of full junior sides is about 10. Next year's first team squad will have 4-5 players from this base, of which only Stringer (who is a product of Sheffield's Academy from the SL days via Hoyland) is a first choice selection.

The club are pretty good at exploiting commercial sponsorship, which would be easier in SL. The crowds will never get near the football crowds, but could match the ice hockey if the marketing was done properly.

Knowing Mark Aston, he will not stop until he gets in SL or he keels over. What he's done so far to take the Eagles to the top of the semi-pro pile from nothing is a remarkable story - if for one moment he'd considered how difficult the job was he'd have probably packed in and gone to coach in SL.

It's interesting that fans from other clubs, who normally deride the SL application process, are suddenly using it against the Eagles. I think the likes of Fev, Fax and Leigh realise there's another contender, and a serious one. Whether they would survive and then thrive, who knows. If the Bulls can struggle, almost anybody could.
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#59 Johnoco

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:28 AM

You're absolutely right Parky. I despair, I really do. Sheffield sold 250 tickets for last season's GF and not many more this season on the evidence of the crowd figure. But hey, they're in a big city, get them in SL. Not a cat in hell's chance of succeeding. We never learn, do we?

Hang on, this discussion is pretty much based on the fact that they have won the GF, not merely that they are based in a big city. In another life they would have been promoted anyway, so how can you deride them when that is what you are calling for?

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#60 The Parksider

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:13 AM

This discussion is pretty much based on the fact that they have won the GF, not merely that they are based in a big city. In another life they would have been promoted anyway,


So come on everybody. If Eagles were being promoted in a few months time how would they do and how would they do it?????




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