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Eagles for SL


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#121 Griff

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

I think this thread is drifting away from the point.

To be a success, you need customers more than development.
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#122 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

I wasn't being funny, I was just asking whether it proves anything.


I don't think it proves anything particularly but I'm just amazed at the hypocrisy. How Parky can argue one thing about Welsh and London clubs needing to be in SL before they start to produce SL level players and then argue the exact opposite with regard to Sheffield.

#123 StixRooster

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:23 PM

I can't possibly begin to answer all of the points above, but here are a few!

Players - Development in the schools within Sheffield plus Rotherham, Barnsley and North Derbyshire continues apace. The amateur clubs have started to bear fruit, albeit small acorns. It takes time and assistance, to be fair, the RFL haven't, to my knowledge, provided much of the latter.

Fans - In my little group (we needed more than one taxi for the GF) we live in Rotherham, Barnsley, Chesterfield, Worksop as well as Sheffield. It therefore stands to reason that you're not just trying to attract the fans of the two Sheffield footy clubs (Most of them are so far up their own jacksy anyway you wouldn't want them anywhere near a rugby match) and so marketing has to go much further afield. In reality, every supporter has to bring a couple of new ones with them and we're well above the mystical 2500.

Stadium - Get the hell out of DVS and IMO, BL as well. A small stadium isn't readily available, Millmoor was mentioned, adequate at best (although funnily enough better facilities than a lot of Champ grounds and (borrowed from YCCC) aside, not that far behind the likes of Headingley. IMO, real overtures must be made to the Millers. A stadium better than all in SL with the exception of the KC and maybe Snellins. The stumbling block is the club moving out of Sheffield and the willingness of Tony Stewart at RUFC (who already turned down Rotherham RU due to local politics) but who is desparate for the New York Stadium to turn a dollar.

Finances - We make a profit. With more fans, we make a bigger profit and/or we spend more on wages, but the club is better run than loads, we thank Ian Swire et al for that.

We may or may not make the application, but knowing Mark and Ian, we'll make it when they think we're ready at all levels.

Part of me wants to be back in SL, part of me not, I quite like going to the Mount, Dewsbury and Fev!

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#124 Griff

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:36 PM

Personally, I'd like us to share a stadium with Rotherham RU. The pitch would be the right shape and the stadium would probably be better fitted to our crowds.

But we're a long way off a project like that ......
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#125 MidlandsRugbyLeague

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

I can't possibly begin to answer all of the points above, but here are a few!

Players - Development in the schools within Sheffield plus Rotherham, Barnsley and North Derbyshire continues apace. The amateur clubs have started to bear fruit, albeit small acorns. It takes time and assistance, to be fair, the RFL haven't, to my knowledge, provided much of the latter.


It is the RFL, North Derbyshire Chargers and Derby City who provide the funding for the Community Coach who has built up the activity in North Derbyshire and it is the RFL who have provided significant investment into other posts at the Eagles that cover South Yorkshire (as they have the other professional clubs in the country).

#126 The Parksider

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

I don't think it proves anything particularly but I'm just amazed at the hypocrisy. How Parky can argue one thing about Welsh and London clubs needing to be in SL before they start to produce SL level players and then argue the exact opposite with regard to Sheffield.


Your falling over yourself to have a go as usual.

Mr. Hughes has pumped millions into London and Crusaders put a lot of investment in. All that money would not have been available to the game, and would not have helped promote junior RL in these areas had these clubs not been given access to Super League.

In direct contrast Sheffield have no money.

It's always about money and that is the big big difference.

If someone wants to put £2,000,000 a year into Sheffield and adopt the Midlands as their junior breeding ground fine - let's have them.......

Edited by The Parksider, 08 October 2012 - 05:12 PM.


#127 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:47 PM

Samuel put not a penny into junior rugby league in Wales and nor did he put £2 million a year into Crusaders. No club has less cash than Crusaders, they still owe cash to their former players.

Hughes puts in this kind of cash and still Broncos have no money.

But we are talking hypothetically here, even Eagles fans know that the club doesn't have the finances yet. You said that the club doesn't have the money or the players. If they had the cash, they would be able to get the players, Sheffield is close enough to West Yorkshire.

#128 keighley

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

I hope Sheffield or Fev or any other potential SL applicant finds an investor. The reaction from the various naysayers would be interesting. To defend some of the entrenched status quo set in stone licencees would test even their powers of argument.

It will happen at some point.

#129 Marauder

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:45 PM

I can't possibly begin to answer all of the points above, but here are a few!

Players - Development in the schools within Sheffield plus Rotherham, Barnsley and North Derbyshire continues apace. The amateur clubs have started to bear fruit, albeit small acorns. It takes time and assistance, to be fair, the RFL haven't, to my knowledge, provided much of the latter.

Fans - In my little group (we needed more than one taxi for the GF) we live in Rotherham, Barnsley, Chesterfield, Worksop as well as Sheffield. It therefore stands to reason that you're not just trying to attract the fans of the two Sheffield footy clubs (Most of them are so far up their own jacksy anyway you wouldn't want them anywhere near a rugby match) and so marketing has to go much further afield. In reality, every supporter has to bring a couple of new ones with them and we're well above the mystical 2500.

Stadium - Get the hell out of DVS and IMO, BL as well. A small stadium isn't readily available, Millmoor was mentioned, adequate at best (although funnily enough better facilities than a lot of Champ grounds and (borrowed from YCCC) aside, not that far behind the likes of Headingley. IMO, real overtures must be made to the Millers. A stadium better than all in SL with the exception of the KC and maybe Snellins. The stumbling block is the club moving out of Sheffield and the willingness of Tony Stewart at RUFC (who already turned down Rotherham RU due to local politics) but who is desparate for the New York Stadium to turn a dollar.

Finances - We make a profit. With more fans, we make a bigger profit and/or we spend more on wages, but the club is better run than loads, we thank Ian Swire et al for that.

We may or may not make the application, but knowing Mark and Ian, we'll make it when they think we're ready at all levels.

Part of me wants to be back in SL, part of me not, I quite like going to the Mount, Dewsbury and Fev!

You seem to be forgetting that Doncaster will also be tapping into the South Yorkshire areas as well.
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#130 Pottsy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

I agree about Don Valley Stadium and, for different reasons, Bramall Lane.

Personally though, I reckon the new(ish) stadium at Chesterfield might be a better bet, particularly if the club is serious in its aim to 'claim' the midlands.

http://www.theproactstadium.co.uk/



#131 The Parksider

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:54 PM

Samuel put not a penny into junior rugby league in Wales and nor did he put £2 million a year into Crusaders. No club has less cash than Crusaders, they still owe cash to their former players.

Hughes puts in this kind of cash and still Broncos have no money.

But we are talking hypothetically here, even Eagles fans know that the club doesn't have the finances yet. You said that the club doesn't have the money or the players. If they had the cash, they would be able to get the players, Sheffield is close enough to West Yorkshire.


London and Wales have produced Superleague players, Sheffield haven't get over it.

Edited by The Parksider, 08 October 2012 - 07:54 PM.


#132 The Parksider

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:01 PM

I hope Sheffield or Fev or any other potential SL applicant finds an investor. The reaction from the various naysayers would be interesting.


It's very simple. If a club can find someone to put a couple of million pounds a year into SL they get a place.

If a club can't find any investment and they are skint they don't get a place.

Nobody is a naysayer or against any club (well solly may be) It's just a reality that you need............

Now you say it.

#133 tim2

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:18 PM

It is the RFL, North Derbyshire Chargers and Derby City who provide the funding for the Community Coach who has built up the activity in North Derbyshire and it is the RFL who have provided significant investment into other posts at the Eagles that cover South Yorkshire (as they have the other professional clubs in the country).


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#134 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

London and Wales have produced Superleague players, Sheffield haven't get over it.


Hypocrisy again.

London and Wales didn't before joining SL and you have a go at Sheffield.

Just how flat can a cap be?

#135 The Parksider

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:03 PM

Hypocrisy again.


If it suits you, but we beg to differ.

London and Wales have a long association with Rugby League and there were investors there to put money in and it helped towards developing SL players. No history and no money in Sheffield so sadly that's that.

Edited by The Parksider, 08 October 2012 - 10:17 PM.


#136 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

London and Wales have produced Superleague players, Sheffield haven't get over it.

Complete and utter hypocrisy that you're still using this argument.
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#137 The Parksider

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:20 PM

Complete and utter hypocrisy that you're still using this argument.


We will beg to differ until the day you can remain civil in what is, as you say yourself, just a message board for discussing Rugby League. Look to your own Hippocracy my friend.

Edited by The Parksider, 08 October 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#138 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:25 PM

We will beg to differ until the day you can remain civil in what is, as you say yourself, just a message board for discussing Rugby League. Look to your own Hippocracy my friend.

It is hypocritical to argue that Sheffield should already have players in SL, but Wales need a SL club in order to produce them. You can't have it both ways.
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#139 The Parksider

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:31 PM

It is hypocritical to argue that Sheffield should already have players in SL, but Wales need a SL club in order to produce them. You can't have it both ways.


I never said Sheffield should have players in SL. I never said Wales needed an SL club to produce them.

The private money available to London and Wales to run in Superleague helped the junior scene move on apace in both places and today we see SL players from those places.

Should millions be available to Sheffield fine, let them have a go at SL and have a go developing Sheffield born players to expand the player pool. After all they have the advantage of plenty of junior teams close by to play.

#140 The Parksider

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:25 AM

I can't make sense of your figures - Sheffield already have a player payroll cost. On your figures the Sky money covers the payroll.


Sorry - forgot to reply.

It seems quite logical that if such as Sheffield are spending several hundred thousand on players already, then when they pick up over £1,000,000 a year from SKY this can then mean that they can pay full salary cap in SL.

It doesn't work like that though as clubs entering SL are required to have significant backroom staff for marketing and running an academy, and many other costs and expenses are created.

The easiest way to look at this is look at the clubs who struggle financially - such as Cas and Bradford. They struggle on 8,000 and 10,000 gates respectively. Sheffield will not get those gates.

HKR lost £500K on gates of nearly 8,000 and declared they needed 10,000 fans to break even. That says to me even if Sheffield could put 6,000 through the turnstiles they are looking at £1,000,000 a year loss.

Sheffield are close enough to west yorkshire to get players, but this works two ways. If ever they produced a quality Superleague star they would not be able to hang onto him as a rich club up the road would take that player. There's not enough quality players about - Cas and HKR can't hang onto theirs even on gates approaching 8,000.




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