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#41 stewpot01

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:12 PM

deleted post

Edited by stewpot01, 16 October 2012 - 05:16 PM.


#42 stewpot01

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:16 PM

Bet you didn't referee the under-18s in the mid-90s then, we were a bunch of arseholes... :)


I refereed in the mid-late 80's, I moved to Bradford and joined their society and had to pack it in by '92 because my ankle was shot. Also remember the twins who went on to briefly play for Leeds -they were under 13's when I was officiating. I was in the middle for the U13 final at Bus Vale between them and Middleton. The U18's always had great battles with Middleton, got quite tasty sometimes :lol:

I was always made welcome there, refereed the Black Dog as well.

Edited by stewpot01, 16 October 2012 - 05:18 PM.


#43 EdinburghExile

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:29 PM

I refereed in the mid-late 80's, I moved to Bradford and joined their society and had to pack it in by '92 because my ankle was shot. Also remember the twins who went on to briefly play for Leeds -they were under 13's when I was officiating. I was in the middle for the U13 final at Bus Vale between them and Middleton. The U18's always had great battles with Middleton, got quite tasty sometimes :lol:

I was always made welcome there, refereed the Black Dog as well.


We probably crossed paths then, one of the twins put me in for my first ever try in the U-11s. I certainly remember propping against Middleton when they had a very big number 10 in the juniors, I might even have played in that final, we certainly won a few L&D cups in our time! I was a year younger so I alternated between playing with the twins and others in one year, and the likes of Leroy Rivett and Rob Roberts in the younger set. We had a hell of a good generation there, and McGuire and Mathers weren't too far behind either.

I take it you'll remember Ron Tinker? One of the more memorable refs around Leeds. Bill Fiddes also springs to mind, although he was a bit old to have reffed me!

#44 stewpot01

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:12 PM

We probably crossed paths then, one of the twins put me in for my first ever try in the U-11s. I certainly remember propping against Middleton when they had a very big number 10 in the juniors, I might even have played in that final, we certainly won a few L&D cups in our time! I was a year younger so I alternated between playing with the twins and others in one year, and the likes of Leroy Rivett and Rob Roberts in the younger set. We had a hell of a good generation there, and McGuire and Mathers weren't too far behind either.

I take it you'll remember Ron Tinker? One of the more memorable refs around Leeds. Bill Fiddes also springs to mind, although he was a bit old to have reffed me!


In that case we certainly will have. the final was either 86 or 87 (lost my medals when we moved) I refereed the under 11's as well. that big number 10, he was the difference for them in a lot of games, it normally took 5 or 6 kids just to tackle him, in which time he offloaded to a colleague and it was usually a try. I remember them playing Pudsey, Middleton were 76-0 by HT and both coaches asked me to blow up for FT after 50 mins so as not embarrass the Pudsey youngsters. To me at least it gave them something of an unfair advantage - he did sign for Bradford but I think they released him after just 1 season.
I suspect you will have also come up against Jason Robinson when he was at Hunslet (was it Parkside or BC?)
I remember Ron. Bill was a wonderful man, and it was a shock when he died while still in his 50's as he was one of the fittest refs around, I ran the line for him at BV in the under 18 final - it could well have been your lads and Middleton - it usually was.
My other refereeing colleagues at that time were Terry Ambler, Peter Caine (ex Bradford Northern), Grahame Wheatley and Kevin Dockray (they were the ones I worked mostly with).
It was certainly some of the happiest times I had involved with the game and in many ways wish I still was.

Who was the guy in charge at EL? i can see him now, nice bloke who was heavily involved with the amateur game.

Edited by stewpot01, 16 October 2012 - 06:17 PM.


#45 EdinburghExile

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:39 PM

In that case we certainly will have. the final was either 86 or 87 (lost my medals when we moved) I refereed the under 11's as well. that big number 10, he was the difference for them in a lot of games, it normally took 5 or 6 kids just to tackle him, in which time he offloaded to a colleague and it was usually a try. I remember them playing Pudsey, Middleton were 76-0 by HT and both coaches asked me to blow up for FT after 50 mins so as not embarrass the Pudsey youngsters. To me at least it gave them something of an unfair advantage - he did sign for Bradford but I think they released him after just 1 season.
I suspect you will have also come up against Jason Robinson when he was at Hunslet (was it Parkside or BC?)
I remember Ron. Bill was a wonderful man, and it was a shock when he died while still in his 50's as he was one of the fittest refs around, I ran the line for him at BV in the under 18 final - it could well have been your lads and Middleton - it usually was.
My other refereeing colleagues at that time were Terry Ambler, Peter Caine (ex Bradford Northern), Grahame Wheatley and Kevin Dockray (they were the ones I worked mostly with).
It was certainly some of the happiest times I had involved with the game and in many ways wish I still was.

Who was the guy in charge at EL? i can see him now, nice bloke who was heavily involved with the amateur game.


The last two names you mentioned ring bells.

Rod Keeligan was the chairman during my time, Mally Waite I think asked my dad if I wanted to play, that's what got me going along, I get the impression he was quite well known on the scene too. We were coached by a few people over the years, often Dennis Gibbons, (the twins' dad), plus the Paul Volante/Keith Smith dream team, although they were more with the younger team.

I (un?)luckily missed playing Billy Whizz, he was two years older.

#46 stewpot01

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

The last two names you mentioned ring bells.

Rod Keeligan was the chairman during my time, Mally Waite I think asked my dad if I wanted to play, that's what got me going along, I get the impression he was quite well known on the scene too. We were coached by a few people over the years, often Dennis Gibbons, (the twins' dad), plus the Paul Volante/Keith Smith dream team, although they were more with the younger team.

I (un?)luckily missed playing Billy Whizz, he was two years older.


Rod Keeligan, that's him. Was very knowledgeable Dennis was a nice man, i bet he was so proud when the twins turned out for Leeds - he always said they would play for them. It's a good few years since I saw him, he used to have a stall on Leeds market, don't know if he still does? Mally's name rings a bell.

#47 The Parksider

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

I take it you'll remember Ron Tinker? One of the more memorable refs around Leeds. Bill Fiddes also springs to mind, although he was a bit old to have reffed me!


Bill was my wifes uncle. He got me reffing although I didn't doo it for long. Bus Vale festival was enjoyable. His proudest moment was running a Wembley Line I think 1979 Wakey/Widnes?

Howard Josephson was the L & D referees secretary?? Frank Robinson of Pudsey made it to reffing the pro game?? i do remember Kevin Dockray hefty blond haired lad?

Edited by The Parksider, 16 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.


#48 stewpot01

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:46 PM

Bill was my wifes uncle. He got me reffing although I didn't doo it for long. Bus Vale festival was enjoyable. His proudest moment was running a Wembley Line I think 1979 Wakey/Widnes?

Howard Josephson was the L & D referees secretary?? Frank Robinson of Pudsey made it to reffing the pro game?? i do remember Kevin Dockray hefty blond haired lad?


I remember that Graham Wheatley was secretary (he was later made chairman or president), not Howard. What year are you talking about? Alan Turner was also something to do with that as it was he I contacted when I first got involved on the reffing side in late '85.
Frank got to grade 2, as did Geoff Croft in later years.
Howard was in the papers last year, he traveled all the way from Leeds to London using his free bus pass (it took him about two weeks).
Kevin had the Dalesman pub at Butcher Hill. Ray Tenant was also involved with us. John Holdsworth was attached to us but never attended any meetings - there was always a little bit of controversy surrounding that.
The other referees I remember along with those I have mentioned previously are:
  • Keith Robinson (great sense of humor, moved to London when his firm moved there)
  • Mick (cannot remember his surname, he was a bus driver)
  • Carl Leach
  • Julie (she was a nurse)
  • Russ Vickers (Postman)
  • Keith Reid (I used to get my shirts from him)
  • Alan Picket (my first game was running the line for him)
  • Nigel Killick (he moved to Bradford around the same time as me)
  • Terry Ambler (I did a few games with him, first one to visit me when I fractured my ankle)
  • Peter Cain (Peter was an ex pro and a lovely guy as well)
  • Dave Mitchell (remember us doing Hull KR colts v Sheffield and there was a mass brawl)
  • John Barrowclough (ran the line for me in the U13 cup final)
There are some others who's names I don't remember but can still see their faces. The lad who who was a DJ. Then there was one lad, I think he was a rep, always dressed immaculate.
My apologies to anyone else for not remembering their names.

Edited by stewpot01, 17 October 2012 - 05:58 AM.


#49 keighley

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:25 AM

Re Leeds Parish Church.

I guess i was wrong am the island for the ground. I guess I looked at the map and saw the peninsula in the canal by Cclarence street and concluded the ground was there.

The following is what Trevor Delaney said in his book "The Grounds of Rugby League" in the chapter on defunct clubs

" Formed circa 1874-79 as a section of the church recreation club, " "T" lads owert t'bridge" played at Clarence Field, Crown Point, over Crown Point Bridge between the tow path of the Aire-Calder navigation and Clarendon Road just beyond Leeds locks. Bounded by a high wooden fence there were grandstands on each touchline. The record attendance for the ground of 20,000 was set against Runcorn in the 1900 Challenge Cup.......Beyond the far goal was a timber yard which is still there. The site, with cricket fields, which ran at right angles to the rugby field, is today industrial premises "

The book was published in 1991 so things may have changed at the site since then. I note the wording of Clarendon Road rather than Clarence Street. Is this relevant?

I hope, with your local knowledge, you can figure out exactly where it was.

#50 keighley

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:31 AM

Do you think the Parish church would have any records re the club which could shed any light on their whole history?

#51 stewpot01

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:28 AM

Re Leeds Parish Church.

I guess i was wrong am the island for the ground. I guess I looked at the map and saw the peninsula in the canal by Cclarence street and concluded the ground was there.

The following is what Trevor Delaney said in his book "The Grounds of Rugby League" in the chapter on defunct clubs

" Formed circa 1874-79 as a section of the church recreation club, " "T" lads owert t'bridge" played at Clarence Field, Crown Point, over Crown Point Bridge between the tow path of the Aire-Calder navigation and Clarendon Road just beyond Leeds locks. Bounded by a high wooden fence there were grandstands on each touchline. The record attendance for the ground of 20,000 was set against Runcorn in the 1900 Challenge Cup.......Beyond the far goal was a timber yard which is still there. The site, with cricket fields, which ran at right angles to the rugby field, is today industrial premises "

The book was published in 1991 so things may have changed at the site since then. I note the wording of Clarendon Road rather than Clarence Street. Is this relevant?

I hope, with your local knowledge, you can figure out exactly where it was.


i think the author of the book has not done his research. Clarendon Road does exist, but it is nowhere near to Hunslet - in fact it is not far from Leeds university - and nowhere near water.
I now know whereabouts it was situated to within a couple of hundred yards (give or take) and it is Clarence road (there never has been a Clarence street).
The timber yards as I recall were gone before '91. I suspect that the recreation ground opposite may well have been what he is talking about.
There was a large sports ground further on, but that was on Low Road - now another industrial estate - that was used up to 1987 and was home to Hunslet Nelson CC and also had a football and rugby pitch and a large fence around it. Now I am beginning to wonder if in years gone by, Low road was part of Clarence road. The more I dig the more interesting this becomes.
Not too sure if the Parish church will have records, I could imagine they were destroyed if the side was disbanded by the clergy.

#52 The Parksider

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:08 AM

i think the author of the book has not done his research. Clarendon Road does exist, but it is nowhere near to Hunslet - in fact it is not far from Leeds university - and nowhere near water.
I now know whereabouts it was situated to within a couple of hundred yards (give or take) and it is Clarence road (there never has been a Clarence street).
The timber yards as I recall were gone before '91. I suspect that the recreation ground opposite may well have been what he is talking about.


Trevor Delaney did do his research, an excellent historian.

Clarendon Road is an error, that's in Little Woodhouse. Clarence "Street" was York's ground!!.

The ground WAS on the timber yard.

If you get the right O.S. Map the outline of the pitch and the two stands is marked.

As you travel down CLARENCE ROAD the ground is on the left between the road and the towpath.

50 Yards or less on and you hit the the junction with Carlisle Road, where Carlisle played (only joking)

The best Parish Church article was in Code X111.....

They played in blue and black at one point

Edited by The Parksider, 17 October 2012 - 06:10 AM.


#53 The Parksider

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:09 AM

DP

Edited by The Parksider, 17 October 2012 - 06:10 AM.


#54 stewpot01

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:14 AM

Trevor Delaney did do his research, an excellent historian.

Clarendon Road is an error, that's in Little Woodhouse. Clarence "Street" was York's ground!!.

The ground WAS on the timber yard.

If you get the right O.S. Map the outline of the pitch and the two stands is marked.

As you travel down CLARENCE ROAD the ground is on the left between the road and the towpath.

50 Yards or less on and you hit the the junction with Carlisle Road, where Carlisle played (only joking)

The best Parish Church article was in Code X111.....

They played in blue and black at one point


Thanks. Now I know just where it is.

#55 EdinburghExile

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:06 AM

Rod Keeligan, that's him. Was very knowledgeable Dennis was a nice man, i bet he was so proud when the twins turned out for Leeds - he always said they would play for them. It's a good few years since I saw him, he used to have a stall on Leeds market, don't know if he still does? Mally's name rings a bell.


Rod's just had his 45th wedding anniversary according to Farcebook.

Not sure if Dennis has retired, but I dropped past the stall last year and one of the twins (maybe Anthony) appeared to be running it himself. I can't remember whether this was confirmed.

My old man reckons the twins could have gone a good bit further in the game if they'd had more variety of coaching when younger, Dennis coached them until they were 16/17 I think.

#56 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

Rod's just had his 45th wedding anniversary according to Farcebook.

Not sure if Dennis has retired, but I dropped past the stall last year and one of the twins (maybe Anthony) appeared to be running it himself. I can't remember whether this was confirmed.

My old man reckons the twins could have gone a good bit further in the game if they'd had more variety of coaching when younger, Dennis coached them until they were 16/17 I think.

I played in the age group above the twins,they were very good,Mally Waite coached our age group,always remember the hill in East End Park during pre season,a killer.
Founder of the convent pontoon team.

#57 Ex-Kirkholt

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:32 PM

  • Nigel Killick (he moved to Bradford around the same time as me)

Nigel Killick reffed Kirkholt WMC firsts and seconds in the Pennine League on many occasions. I was secretary at the time and he charged a fortune in expenses and then expected to have his beer bought for him !

He is the only ref I saw (in the amateur game) who penalised the attacking side for not retreating 10 yards at the play-the-ball. This WAS a rule at the time but only ever enforced once.

He used to call one of our bald yet hairy-faced players "beastmaster".

He wasn't a bad ref, a bit idiosyncratic but a real character and I was always pleased to have him ref us even if the treasurer wasn't !
Looks like it wer' organised by't Pennine League

#58 stewpot01

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

Nigel Killick reffed Kirkholt WMC firsts and seconds in the Pennine League on many occasions. I was secretary at the time and he charged a fortune in expenses and then expected to have his beer bought for him !

He is the only ref I saw (in the amateur game) who penalised the attacking side for not retreating 10 yards at the play-the-ball. This WAS a rule at the time but only ever enforced once.

He used to call one of our bald yet hairy-faced players "beastmaster".

He wasn't a bad ref, a bit idiosyncratic but a real character and I was always pleased to have him ref us even if the treasurer wasn't !


I agree he was a character. I ran a few lines for him and he could be a bit annoying with his little quirks, but he was a decent ref as some go at that level. I remember how he would often signal FT by standing on the half-way line with his legs astride and blow the whistle while whirling his arms above his head. The players found it quite amusing at times.
Expenses was something I rarely charged and more often than not would end up putting my money back over the bar or the raffles/whatever was going on post match.
He did annoy me in one game in the Leeds and District Sunday league. We had an open age game between two bitter rivals and it required touch judges. He told us to pull them for everything so as not end up with a brawl then told me off for been "On and off like a fiddlers elbow" - this was for punching/gouging - so I did as he wanted and he ended up with a mass punch up instead, and that is the only time I almost fell out with a refereeing colleague.

Edited by stewpot01, 17 October 2012 - 01:52 PM.


#59 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

I agree he was a character. I ran a few lines for him and he could be a bit annoying with his little quirks, but he was a decent ref as some go at that level. I remember how he would often signal FT by standing on the half-way line with his legs astride and blow the whistle while whirling his arms above his head. The players found it quite amusing at times.
Expenses was something I rarely charged and more often than not would end up putting my money back over the bar or the raffles/whatever was going on post match.
He did annoy me in one game in the Leeds and District Sunday league. We had an open age game between two bitter rivals and it required touch judges. He told us to pull them for everything so as not end up with a brawl then told me off for been "On and off like a fiddlers elbow" - this was for punching/gouging - so I did as he wanted and he ended up with a mass punch up instead, and that is the only time I almost fell out with a refereeing colleague.

Was Nigel the big bloke with the moustache?I remeber we used to have a ref like that in junior games in the early-mid 80's,never knew his name,as we were always told to call the ref "sir".
Founder of the convent pontoon team.

#60 stewpot01

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

Was Nigel the big bloke with the moustache?I remeber we used to have a ref like that in junior games in the early-mid 80's,never knew his name,as we were always told to call the ref "sir".


Hi. Yes that was him. I really did hate been called sir myself, but It did install discipline and respect - something footballers could learn - then again I was at times called things VERY different from sir :lol:

Edited by stewpot01, 17 October 2012 - 03:54 PM.





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