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Would getting rid of 'gang tackling' and 'wrestling' damage the Amateur game?


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#1 HappyDave

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

I see the Aussies, especially Aussie coaches, are constently whinging about 'wrestling', slowing down the ptb and 3 - 4 guys in the tackle ('gang tackles').

I'm obviously fully against so-called 'cannonballing' and 'stress' holds on the limbs, joints and neck/choking. However I have no problem with legally slowing the ptb down or even the ref allowing 2 - 3 seconds 'lying on'. I don't want to see RL turn into 'touch rugby'!

Seeing as Amateur teams sometimes travel with 11 - 14 guys (the 14th man is alway a ruddy Back!) and aren't all the fittest of people I'd say if Ref didn't allow 1 - 2 players to hold the guy up and the 2nd/3rd guy to wrap the legs up to take them to ground/flipping a player onto their back before the tackle is complete, and even a slight leniency towards 'lying on', I'd say it would really damage low level amateur game. Especially at the pace the game is played at at the height of summer.

Having said that I bloody love the 10m rule. The collision is great fun and it definitely gives the more talented players space for flare. No backwards step toward 5m!

Edited by HappyDave, 05 October 2012 - 09:07 PM.

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#2 shun

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:38 PM

:wacko:

#3 HappyDave

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:50 PM

:wacko:


Huh?
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#4 Rob

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:03 PM

Are you suggesting a rule that limits any tackling to be only one-on-one tackling? Or a maximum of two-on-one? It would fundamentally change the game.

Again, how would you define wrestling, as opposed to two players tackling each other slowly due to their lack of fitness?

I think implementing either rule would be extremly hard for referees.

For what its worth, I think the rules should be the same at all levels of the game.

#5 HappyDave

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:08 PM

No, exactly the opposite. Have you misread my post Rob? :huh:

Edited by HappyDave, 05 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.

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#6 Rob

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:27 PM

No, exactly the opposite. Have you misread my post Rob? :huh:

OK, I see what you are saying, I was answering the thread title without really having read your post in detail to see your point of view!

Yes, at some levels the amateur game does need to be slow for some players to participate without being completly knackered.

But, when you get a slow team playing a fitter team, is it fair to have rules which favour the slower team and (possibly) drag the standard of the fitter team down? In such a case I would hope the ref does penalise the slower team for their spoiling tactics, otherwise you could end up with a 'race to the bottom' i.e rules where there is no encouragment to be fitter and excel at the sport.

#7 HappyDave

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:45 PM

I agree, Refs shouldn't allow 'spoil tactic' to assist any team. The fitter, more driven, more skillful team should, and does, always win. My point was; don't make the game too fast that you force players out of the game. Plus I don't mind a slower 'ruck' at the 'elite' level, as I don't want RL to become 'touch rugby'. However if you're lying on for an eternity (say 4 seconds at the top level) then the ref HAS to blow for a penalty, as they do. When Dobson commited the professional foul at the Magic Weekend the Ref had no choice but to send him to the sin-bin.

At present it is possible to win a game with a 13-14-man/woman squad against a team with a few interchanges. Due to skill, drive and team-spirit. However trying to speed up the game could really kill teams over an 80 and spoil the game as a competition and a spectical.

Edited by HappyDave, 05 October 2012 - 11:55 PM.

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#8 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:21 AM

wrestling techniques don't slow down the play the ball. They employed by the tackler and the tackled player to gain advantage within the rules.
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#9 HappyDave

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

By ptb I meant the 'contact/ruck' area but I take your point and I agree.
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#10 Marauder

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

Doesent the system of having division within a league allow for different standards in the playing strength and if you still can't hack it in the bottom division go and play tig and pass.
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#11 HappyDave

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:41 PM

Doesent the system of having division within a league allow for different standards in the playing strength and if you still can't hack it in the bottom division go and play tig and pass.


Did you read my original post? From what I can tell Aussies/Aussie Coaches want to turn Rugby into 'Touch'.

My point was that players CAN 'hack it' at present. I've only been playing 3 years [in the 2nd Row] but had to play a fair few 80s in that time. Its obviously extremely knackering but its still possible for amateur teams with only 13 - 14 players to win games or put up a great battle against larger squads. My point was if amateurs had to jump off the tackle as soon as it was made you'd force the unfitter guys/guys who have the biggest work-rate [Hookers, Props and 2nds Rows] out of thr game as the 10m would be nye on impossible for the defensive-line.

Edited by HappyDave, 06 October 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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#12 Rugby League Wiki

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:18 PM

But, when you get a slow team playing a fitter team, is it fair to have rules which favour the slower team and (possibly) drag the standard of the fitter team down? In such a case I would hope the ref does penalise the slower team for their spoiling tactics, otherwise you could end up with a 'race to the bottom' i.e rules where there is no encouragment to be fitter and excel at the sport.


I don't think being the fitter team means you shouldn't have to worry about a team using legal tactics to their advantage. A good footballing team should be able to compete with a team of gym monkeys.

Like HappyDave was saying: we should be mindful about how the whole game is impacted by changes.

#13 HappyDave

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:35 PM

I don't think being the fitter team means you shouldn't have to worry about a team using legal tactics to their advantage. A good footballing team should be able to compete with a team of gym monkeys.

Like HappyDave was saying: we should be mindful about how the whole game is impacted by changes.


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#14 keighley

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

The rules can stay the same but the ref can use their discretion as happens in the scrums. It is still illegal to feed the scrum but heh, when was the last faIr put in ?

I must say that the scrum today is a useful break in play to allow players to catch their breath. The speed of the game and the fitness needed is incredible and must be difficult for amateur players to sustain.

#15 HappyDave

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

Yep, its ruddy knackering as a player.
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#16 HappyDave

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

I think I chose the title poorly but I hope people understood the point I was trying to make.
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#17 Marauder

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:15 PM

I agree, Refs shouldn't allow 'spoil tactic' to assist any team. The fitter, more driven, more skillful team should, and does, always win. My point was; don't make the game too fast that you force players out of the game. Plus I don't mind a slower 'ruck' at the 'elite' level, as I don't want RL to become 'touch rugby'. However if you're lying on for an eternity (say 4 seconds at the top level) then the ref HAS to blow for a penalty, as they do. When Dobson commited the professional foul at the Magic Weekend the Ref had no choice but to send him to the sin-bin.

At present it is possible to win a game with a 13-14-man/woman squad against a team with a few interchanges. Due to skill, drive and team-spirit. However trying to speed up the game could really kill teams over an 80 and spoil the game as a competition and a spectical.


Edited by Marauder, 09 October 2012 - 08:16 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#18 HappyDave

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

Pardon?
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