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#21 gingerjon

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:55 AM

If it's so easy to just gear yourselves up for just 4 weeks of knock out competition, how come everyone else is failing quite spectacularly at doing so?


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#22 Manx RL

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

Agree completely !
Leeds won the GF and are rightly called the champions, its the system thats ###### and the useless bunch of muppets in Red Hall that brought it in that need sorting out. The current system makes SL a bit of a joke whereby a team like Leeds can coast for 27 weekly rounds knowing they only have to play well for 4 weeks at the end of the year to be crowned champions.

There are very few fans that think a top 8 system is a good idea and the clubs were railroaded into supporting it. They wre effectively told that they either had to the support the top 8 system or the RFL would be in serious trouble. There were several clubs who didn't want the top 8 system (like Saints) but were forced into signing up to it.

It just goes to show how out of touch the current administration is with the fans and the clubs.


Do you honestly believe that Leeds 'coasted' for 27 rounds of regular season games? If a team can coast to 5th place, just how poor are teams finishing below them?
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#23 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

Spot on - everybody criticising Leeds and I fail to understand why no other teams have taken this "approach"

By 'eck there's some mardy Lancastrians out in force today


Err I do think many are criticising Leeds. I've no problem with Leeds turning it on when it matters and to beat Wigan and Warrington like they have shows what a champion side they are.

The problem I and others have is that the playoffs are too easy to get into. If they were top 5 or top 4 then Leeds would still have done it but the weekly rounds would have meant something.

At the moment we have possibly 5 top teams therefore the playoff should be 4 clubs so these teams have to compete during the season.

I am not complaining that Leeds have won I complaining that for 7 months we get to see glorified friendlies

Edited by Bostik Bailey, 08 October 2012 - 10:22 AM.


#24 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

Err I do think many are criticising Leeds. I've no problem with Leeds turning it on when it matters and to beat Wigan and Warrington like they have shows what a champion side they are.

The problem I and others have is that the playoffs are too easy to get into. If they were top 5 or top 4 then Leeds would still have done it but the weekly rounds would have meant something.

At the moment we have possibly 5 top teams therefore the playoff should be 4 clubs do these team have to compete during the season.

I am not complaining that Leeds have won I complaining that for 7 months we get to see glorified friendlies


silly sods for making it difficult for themselves and not trying to finish top
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#25 Johnoco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

Why don't we have this discussion in the middle of next season?

Then we can try and decide whether we think some teams are giving their all, or just going through the motions? Or whether the games are worthwhile competitions or just a warm up?

It might be interesting to see peoples views before any places are decided or there is a clear league leader.

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#26 Saint Toppy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

Why don't we have this discussion in the middle of next season?

Then we can try and decide whether we think some teams are giving their all, or just going through the motions? Or whether the games are worthwhile competitions or just a warm up?

It might be interesting to see peoples views before any places are decided or there is a clear league leader.


But fans had discussions like this last year, and the year before, and before that !!
Not many people are criticising Leeds, The fact is most fans (and some clubs) think the format is wrong, that a top 8 is too many clubs and it rewards mediocrity.
It more often than not sees one sided first round games and doesn't push teams to try and finish further up the table.

#27 Johnoco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

But fans had discussions like this last year, and the year before, and before that !!
Not many people are criticising Leeds, The fact is most fans (and some clubs) think the format is wrong, that a top 8 is too many clubs and it rewards mediocrity.
It more often than not sees one sided first round games and doesn't push teams to try and finish further up the table.

I know but we are now talking about the past and perhaps memories are clouded or just hazy. If team A play several terrible games in June-July, people can note it (not one off bad performances) then compare it if that team start playing red hot come Sept.

Edit: which could be total co-incidence anyway, so scrap that idea.

Edited by Johnoco, 08 October 2012 - 12:08 PM.

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#28 flyingking

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

Other sports have no problems with the idea that champions may emerge despite having indifferent regular seasons.
See this for example http://bleacherrepor...-history/page/4
Leeds are worthy champions, they may not necessarily have as much skill or flair as other teams but they possess something equally important- a big game winning mentality (in play-off games at least, though it does not appear to extend to Wembley). They could have been rocked by conceding the early try, but instead they calmly continued to execute their game plan to brilliant effect. Why was this?, they were confident in their ability to control the game and ultimately the result, and that confidence comes from having done it so many times before.
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#29 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:44 PM

Other sports have no problems with the idea that champions may emerge despite having indifferent regular seasons.
See this for example http://bleacherrepor...-history/page/4
Leeds are worthy champions, they may not necessarily have as much skill or flair as other teams but they possess something equally important- a big game winning mentality (in play-off games at least, though it does not appear to extend to Wembley). They could have been rocked by conceding the early try, but instead they calmly continued to execute their game plan to brilliant effect. Why was this?, they were confident in their ability to control the game and ultimately the result, and that confidence comes from having done it so many times before.


I Havee NO problem with Leeds winning it. They are a very good and Champion team. I don't have a problem with deciding the Champions via a playoff and grand final (in fact I think this is a great concept and really finishes the season off on a high).

I have a problem with the 8 team playoff system whereby any of the top sides can make the playoffs without realy trying during the weekly rounds, thus turing the weekly rounds into glorified friendlies

We need to make the weekly rounds more relavent and reducing the playoff to 5 or 4 will do that, AND i still think Leeds would be there and would probably win it.

#30 Amber Avenger

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

But then isn't there the argument that by reducing the number of teams in the playoffs you are creating more glorified friendlies as a lot more teams mid to bottom in the league have nothing to play for? Not saying I agree with this, but it's worth pointing out. At least in the 8 team system, you are playing to keep form, even if you are confirmed in the playoffs in July.
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#31 Johnoco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:22 PM

But then isn't there the argument that by reducing the number of teams in the playoffs you are creating more glorified friendlies as a lot more teams mid to bottom in the league have nothing to play for? Not saying I agree with this, but it's worth pointing out. At least in the 8 team system, you are playing to keep form, even if you are confirmed in the playoffs in July.

Yeah but the theory was that by increasing it to 8 we would get more teams with something to play for.....which is true in theory but it isn't turning out like that.
Maybe there could be a decent cash incentive for finishing higher up the table (outside the top 5) or something? ie the lower you finish the less you get..... but considerably less.

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#32 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:46 PM

to cut the season to the month of september so that it will stop leeds from finishing 5th and being called champions......................

They would adjust again,just like the Borg.resistance is futile,but hey next year is a new season and Leeds might just finish top and win it from there ,AGAIN
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
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#33 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:47 PM

to cut the season to the month of september so that it will stop leeds from finishing 5th and being called champions......................

They would adjust again,just like the Borg.resistance is futile,but hey next year is a new season and Leeds might just finish top and win it from there ,AGAIN
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

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#34 Viking Warrior

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:23 PM

then there will be no argument, i am not being anti-leeds but i have never been a fan of the current play off system, and to cast a wider net, if there had still been p&r then the 4th best team in CC would have been promoted...............that is what is wrong for me.
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#35 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:56 PM

to cut the season to the month of september so that it will stop leeds from finishing 5th and being called champions......................

then there will be no argument, i am not being anti-leeds but i have never been a fan of the current play off system, and to cast a wider net, if there had still been p&r then the 4th best team in CC would have been promoted...............that is what is wrong for me.

Looks pretty anti Leeds to me.
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#36 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:30 PM

then there will be no argument, i am not being anti-leeds but i have never been a fan of the current play off system, and to cast a wider net, if there had still been p&r then the 4th best team in CC would have been promoted...............that is what is wrong for me.


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#37 MikeW

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

But then isn't there the argument that by reducing the number of teams in the playoffs you are creating more glorified friendlies as a lot more teams mid to bottom in the league have nothing to play for?


If we went to the top 5 rather than the top 8 then there would have been the same number of teams playing pointless friendlies at the end of the season. Wakefield and Bradford would have been cut loose from having a chance of qualifying for the playoffs, whereas Leeds and Hull would have been playing games with real intensity to qualify for the top 5

#38 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:17 PM

If we went to the top 5 rather than the top 8 then there would have been the same number of teams playing pointless friendlies at the end of the season. Wakefield and Bradford would have been cut loose from having a chance of qualifying for the playoffs, whereas Leeds and Hull would have been playing games with real intensity to qualify for the top 5

So the top teams would have to perform on order to compete.

With top 8 we create the illusion of competition, when in reality we are rewarding mediocraty and allowing our elite teams an easy ride

Surely it's up to Brafford and Wakefield to up their game to compete in the top 5, not drop the qualifying criteria.

#39 Amber Avenger

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

If we went to the top 5 rather than the top 8 then there would have been the same number of teams playing pointless friendlies at the end of the season. Wakefield and Bradford would have been cut loose from having a chance of qualifying for the playoffs, whereas Leeds and Hull would have been playing games with real intensity to qualify for the top 5


Not quite my point, as technically the teams already in the 8 (like Leeds and Hull) should be aiming to finish as high as possible to get the greatest advantage in the playoffs. I'm more playing devil's advocate here but if the teams already in the 8 choose to drop their intensity once they qualify, that's personal choice and if glorified friendlies happen that's at the risk of the club's chances in the playoffs. If you cut it to five teams, there is no question there will be a lot more pointless matches. It will create more intensity, but only in a couple of cases, it runs the risk of reducing the intensity across the board - while we are in a 14 team league with no relegation at least.

In my ideal world, I guess I'd have a 12 team league, with a 6 team playoff and then one up/one down. That way most teams should be in the mix for something come the end of the year

Edited by Amber Avenger, 09 October 2012 - 08:40 AM.

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