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THE JIMMY SAVILLE THREAD


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#21 Ackroman

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:25 PM

The only caveat I can think of is that society is judging the past, based on our values.

In the late 60's homosexuality was illegal, single mothers were shunned forcing thousands of kids to be adopted under duress. Sex was a dirty word.

I am not an apologist but it's difficult to finger Saville alone when the attitude to sex and women made exploitation so easy, even state sponsored. These men were born into a culture of female exploitation and by outing Saville we'll probably uncover just how endemic this exploitation was. I'm not saying we shouldn't but the actions of a sad little man may pale into insignificance.

#22 Hornetto

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:28 PM

I am not an apologist but it's difficult to finger Saville...


:o

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#23 Mumby Magic

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

The only caveat I can think of is that society is judging the past, based on our values.

In the late 60's homosexuality was illegal, single mothers were shunned forcing thousands of kids to be adopted under duress. Sex was a dirty word.

I am not an apologist but it's difficult to finger Saville alone when the attitude to sex and women made exploitation so easy, even state sponsored. These men were born into a culture of female exploitation and by outing Saville we'll probably uncover just how endemic this exploitation was. I'm not saying we shouldn't but the actions of a sad little man may pale into insignificance.


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#24 Ackroman

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:42 PM

:o


So the rumour goes.

#25 Ackroman

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:43 PM

Kids are kids no matter what the decade is.


I agree but you can't just pick on one man to make everyone feel better and move on, you have to uncover the whole thing.

edit. It looks like being quite a big deal

Edited by Ackroman, 09 October 2012 - 02:49 PM.


#26 Johnoco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:35 PM

Its not a case of picking on one man. We can't hold people who may have had very sexist views and/or thought they could cop a feel of the secretaries t¡ts, with systematic minor exploitation like Saville has done. Not to make light of the former but its not comparable.

Edited by Johnoco, 09 October 2012 - 03:35 PM.

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#27 Ackroman

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

Its not a case of picking on one man. We can't hold people who may have had very sexist views and/or thought they could cop a feel of the secretaries t¡ts, with systematic minor exploitation like Saville has done. Not to make light of the former but its not comparable.


I think it is comparable when Saville may be the standard bearer for the cultural underclasses of his age.

It's easy to isolate these incidents and lock them down and say it's a job done but we have a responsibility to all victims and not just those who happen to get touched up by a famous person.

#28 Johnoco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:59 PM

I think it is comparable when Saville may be the standard bearer for the cultural underclasses of his age.

It's easy to isolate these incidents and lock them down and say it's a job done but we have a responsibility to all victims and not just those who happen to get touched up by a famous person.

I find sexual harassment unacceptable, let me say that first. But it is not the same thing as paedophilia (not saying you don't know this btw) and there is a huge difference between a creepy guy trying it on with a female adult worker and people like Saville involved in wide scale abuse, (which apparently stretches to the Jersey care home, so wide was his involvement)

Adults being sexually harassed is bad, children much more so. I do agree it all needs treating seriously though.

Edited by Johnoco, 09 October 2012 - 04:00 PM.

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Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

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#29 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:34 PM

The only caveat I can think of is that society is judging the past, based on our values.

In the late 60's homosexuality was illegal, single mothers were shunned forcing thousands of kids to be adopted under duress. Sex was a dirty word.

I am not an apologist but it's difficult to finger Saville alone when the attitude to sex and women made exploitation so easy, even state sponsored. These men were born into a culture of female exploitation and by outing Saville we'll probably uncover just how endemic this exploitation was. I'm not saying we shouldn't but the actions of a sad little man may pale into insignificance.

Saville's behaviour went well beyond the late 60s
other men didn't behave in that way during the period or indeed before it or since it
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#30 West Country Eagle

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:40 PM

That's pretty much what I'm driving at. There seems to be a push by people like the DM to tar anyone who might have had dubious sexual morals with the Saville brush.


There's a push by the Daily Mail to use these accusations against Leeds' favourite son as a stick to beat up the BBC, hence any excuse to print stories about other supposed goings on by BBC staff years ago.
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#31 tim2

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:42 PM

There's a push by the Daily Mail to use these accusations against Leeds' favourite son as a stick to beat up the BBC, hence any excuse to print stories about other supposed goings on by BBC staff years ago.


I wonder if they'll be so keen to publish accounts of life for women employees in Fleet Street in those golden days.
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#32 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

I wonder if they'll be so keen to publish accounts of life for women employees in Fleet Street in those golden days.

Janet Street Porter has started the ball rolling
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#33 Johnoco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

Janet Street Porter has started the ball rolling

This might come out wrong and probably will but...it wasn't so bad that it stopped her having a very successful career has it?

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Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

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#34 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:33 PM

This might come out wrong and probably will but...it wasn't so bad that it stopped her having a very successful career has it?


no it didn't

do you think it helped her, and others?
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#35 Padge

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

This might come out wrong and probably will but...it wasn't so bad that it stopped her having a very successful career has it?

She may have paid a high price to maintain or progress that career, as many others may have also.

Edited by Padge, 09 October 2012 - 05:37 PM.


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#36 Johnoco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

She may have paid a high price to maintain or progress that career, as many others may have also.

I wouldn't know and as I say I don't want it to sound wrong but it didn't drive her to get a job in Tescos so either she turned a blind eye herself or it wasn't quite as bad as she says.

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#37 tonyXIII

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:34 PM

I wouldn't know and as I say I don't want it to sound wrong but it didn't drive her to get a job in Tescos so either she turned a blind eye herself or it wasn't quite as bad as she says.


Or she was a very strong and self-confident woman who was quite willing to go along with the culture for the sake of her career? She might even have been willing to turn the tables to put her superiors in a position where they felt they had to promote her.

I'm not saying she did. It would make her quite an exceptional and strong character.

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#38 tonyXIII

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:37 PM

Kids are kids no matter what the decade is.


I take your point, but there is a limit. Children were sent up chimneys in the 1870s (as an example); should we now prosecute all such cases of child exploitation?

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#39 Northern Sol

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:51 PM

I take your point, but there is a limit. Children were sent up chimneys in the 1870s (as an example); should we now prosecute all such cases of child exploitation?


Obviously both perpetrators and victims would all be dead.

But in the 1870s, it was legals to do this and so prosecuting anyone who require you to make a new law and then retrospectively apply it so that acts which were legal are suddenly criminalised. This is akin to jailing anyone who has slept with a 17-year-old.

However, the stuff that Saville is accused of was illegal when he did it.

#40 Johnoco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

Or she was a very strong and self-confident woman who was quite willing to go along with the culture for the sake of her career? She might even have been willing to turn the tables to put her superiors in a position where they felt they had to promote her.

I'm not saying she did. It would make her quite an exceptional and strong character.

Very possibly so.

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Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

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