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THE JIMMY SAVILLE THREAD


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#121 Trojan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

Understood. In addition I'm from Manchester and frequented the Plaza where Savile was manager. He also came to out College at lunchtime to play records.. Talk was rife about his retinue of groupies to and from his flat in Lower Broughton, near the Rialto, if I recall.

Assualting a woman at work has in my experience never been acceptable at any of the places I have worked and would have got you sacked in 1962, 1972, 1982, 1992, 2001 and 2012.

Did they say anything about it? Could that be why no one got sacked? I have personal experience of being "touched up" and I'm a bloke! It was my boss doing it! I never said anything, in fact I've never mentioned it to anyone until this week - 50 years later - I was ashamed. This bloke thought it was funny - he was a local councillor, and a special constable, and a server at his local church, he made my 16 year old life hell. I ended up throwing three lengths of electrical conduit at him, and got the sack!
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#122 Saintslass

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:26 PM

Depends on the situation Saintslass. A young girl was vulnerable if working as a secretary for some guy with wandering hands. But so was a young lad if working on a shop floor full of women-and there were many factories like that. It never happened to me but I know lads who had their trousers taken down or off after being held down by women workers.

Well, I did refer to men in my original post because I'm fully aware that men were also groped.

I'm not really disagreeing with you because a lot of it was swept under the carpet but JohnM is also correct in that it was never actually acceptable and people did actually get sacked or done for it.

As you said in your previous paragraph, there were 'many factories' where women would do stuff to lads. So clearly it was acceptable even if there were people sacked for it. It was certainly acceptable among the upper echelons of places I worked, normally among those who had the power to hire and fire, and normally they were male. However, there will have been men and women to whom it was never acceptable and where those people had the power to hire and fire, they will have been the ones to take action and those workplaces would have been safe workplaces. Remember, in the 1980s it was also acceptable to drink at lunchtimes and so many people were not a little tipsy at work in the afternoons. And they would share a chat over their cigarette, since it was also acceptable to smoke everywhere in the 1980s too.

I read in the Sunday Times this morning a piece written by one of their regular columnists, a woman, who had experienced groping in her workplaces during the 1980s - newspapers - and who had, like me and like countless others, said nothing because the people doing it were in positions of power and because young women were not taken seriously.

I think the key is largely about power here. The women you mentioned had power in numbers. The men I think of had power in their positions in the workplace. Jimmy Savile had power in celebrity. The important factor here, IMO, is for the focus to be on ensuring that no matter how much power a person may have, they never have enough to be able to 'take liberties' without there being appropriate consequences and that those they are 'taking liberties' with, know they can ensure those consequences are brought about.

#123 Johnoco

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

Can't really disagree with most of that.

I did know someone who got sacked for harassing a young girl at work. He was meant to be a supervisor at our place but because word gets around and we found out about his previous employment story, everyone called him 'sex pest'...even to his face. He had no clout at all and was soon gone. So people did get sacked, and not just at the top.

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#124 Ackroman

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:23 AM

I'm glad I went to University because some of my mates who did the YTS (mid '80's) were treated terribly. Workplace bullying and abuse seemed to be a right of passage but it still doesn't explain why a number of celebs. were paedophiles.

#125 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:47 AM

I'm glad I went to University because some of my mates who did the YTS (mid '80's) were treated terribly. Workplace bullying and abuse seemed to be a right of passage but it still doesn't explain why a number of celebs. were paedophiles.

my maste was a fitter at Ackton Hall colliery. On his first day hee was roasted on the workshop fire.
If you are a female fresher at any given university in the UK the 'rights of passage' can be very distressing.
I went to UNi in the late 70s, nothing like this went on

http://www.independe...ek-8203400.html

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 15 October 2012 - 07:49 AM.

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#126 Wolford6

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:25 PM

I went to UNi in the late 70s, nothing like this went on

http://www.independe...ek-8203400.html


I went to the same one in the early 70s, and can confirm that nothing like this went on.

We still all acted like birks though.

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#127 Marauder

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

a

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Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#128 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

I went to the same one in the early 70s, and can confirm that nothing like this went on.

We still all acted like birks though.

it was the early seventies when i went, what was i thinking of.
we probably stood shoulder to shouldfer at the queens hall bar, trying to score two bottles of newcy off maggie slocombe
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#129 Wolford6

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

it was the early seventies when i went, what was i thinking of.
we probably stood shoulder to shouldfer at the queens hall bar, trying to score two bottles of newcy off maggie slocombe


I never liked Newcastle Brown. I used to drink half of bitter (Websters I think in the Union Bar) with a bottle of Mackeson combined in a pint glass. Mind you, we often got a bottle of Clan Dew to drink before we went out (to save money!!!)

In 1971/1972:
Beer was 14p a pint in the Union Bar; a curry was 19p in the Sheesh Mahal; grant was £14 per week; we rented a flat just off Lumb Lane at £5 per week between four of us (asked to leave halls of residence B) ). Scoop-neck t-shirts and loon pants about £2.50 (??) apiece. We were the richest working class students that ever lived.

We used to dare each other to go to the Queens pub on Lumb Lane for the last half hour; prostitutes often didn't bother to drink in there ... they just stood leaning against the back wall talking until a bloke came and asked them to go outside. Fifteen minutes later, twenty at most, they'd be back leaning against the wall. You weren't allowed to take your empty glasses back to the bar; they had to be collected by Big Anna ... a huge scary Polish old woman who couldn't talk properly ... and then you had to give her 20p apiece at shut tap. Anna had allegedly been a "patient" in a Nazi experimental hospital; her tragedy still brings a lump to my throat all these years later. We don't know how lucky we are to be born British.


We watched at least two bands every week. I never had to pay at University Great Hall concerts because I did disco lights in the Small Hall ... two different coloured vegetable oils trapped between three microscope glass plates and placed in front of a high powered lamp ... Hey man, we're talking psychedelic bubbles here. Far Out. ^_^

Played rugby league Wednesdays and rugby union Saturdays. One or two Wednesday away trips on the same bus as the Girls Hockey team.

Spent quite a few Friday nights going to the disco, then sleeping on the floor between girls beds in the women's dormitories at Bingley Teachers Training College ... trying to avoid the Matron (very Carry On!!!). Generally thrown out at about 3am and had to wait in freezing cold Bingley centre till 5am when the bus taking Bus Service personnel to work picked us up (no charge) and the busmen all teased us about failing to cop off again (no change there then!! :D )

A gang of schoolgirls doing their A levels at St Josephs College (very posh in those days) used to skive off to come and clean our flat. Fortunately they used to fetch Jackie magazine and suchlike for us to read while they were cleaning. To be fair, we did make them cups of tea and cheese on toast or (our culinary specialism) a bowl of tinned soup with a bag of chips tipped in. One of those girl skivers is now a high powered solicitor. Not sure about the rest, though they were all really nice ... probably have horses, at least two houses and play golf.

My flatmates were Sunderland fans. Two of them got arrested for stealing a red-and-white roadworks plank. When arrested, they were stood holding it upright while standing in the queue of people waiting for the bus home! Then Sunderland got to the FA Cup Final; one of them dug out his suitcase ready for the trip to London and found an unpleasant "present" left in it by another lad who came to stay at weekends ... clue; it was brown and pointed at both ends. Forty years later, the lad in question denies to this day that it was him who did it. The lad with the suitcase has been married for over thirty years to the Bingley College student that he copped off with.

We are all still friends and about a dozen of us have a reunion in Bradford every other year at August Bank Holiday, including one who's the chief executive of a large medical company who comes over from Canada. We have all had reasonably successful careers. One of the lads who purloined the plank is a professor.

I can't think why I got a rubbish degree!!


I think "What Me And My Mates Got Up To As Students" would be a good thread for the forum.

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#130 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:04 AM

I never liked Newcastle Brown. I used to drink half of bitter (Websters I think in the Union Bar) with a bottle of Mackeson combined in a pint glass. Mind you, we often got a bottle of Clan Dew to drink before we went out (to save money!!!)

In 1971/1972:
Beer was 14p a pint in the Union Bar; a curry was 19p in the Sheesh Mahal; grant was £14 per week; we rented a flat just off Lumb Lane at £5 per week between four of us (asked to leave halls of residence B) ). Scoop-neck t-shirts and loon pants about £2.50 (??) apiece. We were the richest working class students that ever lived.

We used to dare each other to go to the Queens pub on Lumb Lane for the last half hour; prostitutes often didn't bother to drink in there ... they just stood leaning against the back wall talking until a bloke came and asked them to go outside. Fifteen minutes later, twenty at most, they'd be back leaning against the wall. You weren't allowed to take your empty glasses back to the bar; they had to be collected by Big Anna ... a huge scary Polish old woman who couldn't talk properly ... and then you had to give her 20p apiece at shut tap. Anna had allegedly been a "patient" in a Nazi experimental hospital; her tragedy still brings a lump to my throat all these years later. We don't know how lucky we are to be born British.


We watched at least two bands every week. I never had to pay at University Great Hall concerts because I did disco lights in the Small Hall ... two different coloured vegetable oils trapped between three microscope glass plates and placed in front of a high powered lamp ... Hey man, we're talking psychedelic bubbles here. Far Out. ^_^

Played rugby league Wednesdays and rugby union Saturdays. One or two Wednesday away trips on the same bus as the Girls Hockey team.

Spent quite a few Friday nights going to the disco, then sleeping on the floor between girls beds in the women's dormitories at Bingley Teachers Training College ... trying to avoid the Matron (very Carry On!!!). Generally thrown out at about 3am and had to wait in freezing cold Bingley centre till 5am when the bus taking Bus Service personnel to work picked us up (no charge) and the busmen all teased us about failing to cop off again (no change there then!! :D )

A gang of schoolgirls doing their A levels at St Josephs College (very posh in those days) used to skive off to come and clean our flat. Fortunately they used to fetch Jackie magazine and suchlike for us to read while they were cleaning. To be fair, we did make them cups of tea and cheese on toast or (our culinary specialism) a bowl of tinned soup with a bag of chips tipped in. One of those girl skivers is now a high powered solicitor. Not sure about the rest, though they were all really nice ... probably have horses, at least two houses and play golf.

My flatmates were Sunderland fans. Two of them got arrested for stealing a red-and-white roadworks plank. When arrested, they were stood holding it upright while standing in the queue of people waiting for the bus home! Then Sunderland got to the FA Cup Final; one of them dug out his suitcase ready for the trip to London and found an unpleasant "present" left in it by another lad who came to stay at weekends ... clue; it was brown and pointed at both ends. Forty years later, the lad in question denies to this day that it was him who did it. The lad with the suitcase has been married for over thirty years to the Bingley College student that he copped off with.

We are all still friends and about a dozen of us have a reunion in Bradford every other year at August Bank Holiday, including one who's the chief executive of a large medical company who comes over from Canada. We have all had reasonably successful careers. One of the lads who purloined the plank is a professor.

I can't think why I got a rubbish degree!!


I think "What Me And My Mates Got Up To As Students" would be a good thread for the forum.


go for it

I went to Macs an outstation of Leeds Uni to do teacher training.
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#131 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

An interesting interview in the Daily Mirror with the woman who was his PA for 32 years.

http://www.mirror.co...sgraced-1383145

#132 JohnM

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

In April 1978, Harriet Harman wrote the NCCL’s response to the Protection of Children Bill, which was put before Parliament in order to tighten the laws on child pornography by banning indecent images of under-16s. She suggested that pornographic photographs or films of children should not be considered indecent unless it could be shown that the subject had suffered, and that prosecutors would have to prove harm rather than defendants having to justify themselves.

#133 Northern Sol

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:49 PM

In April 1978, Harriet Harman wrote the NCCL’s response to the Protection of Children Bill, which was put before Parliament in order to tighten the laws on child pornography by banning indecent images of under-16s. She suggested that pornographic photographs or films of children should not be considered indecent unless it could be shown that the subject had suffered, and that prosecutors would have to prove harm rather than defendants having to justify themselves.


Unbelievable.

#134 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:02 PM

Apparently one well known bbc broadcaster has also said it was well known that the childrens favourite "uncle dick"has he called him was also abusing kids too.It can only be uncle Mac I remember him being on in the 50s and 60s.
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
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#135 Mumby Magic

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:15 PM

Apparently one well known bbc broadcaster has also said it was well known that the childrens favourite "uncle dick"has he called him was also abusing kids too.It can only be uncle Mac I remember him being on in the 50s and 60s.


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#136 Wolford6

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:03 PM

Apparently one well known bbc broadcaster has also said it was well known that the childrens favourite "uncle dick"has he called him was also abusing kids too.It can only be uncle Mac I remember him being on in the 50s and 60s.


Internet gossip has it down to someone a bit younger.

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#137 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

the appalling dave Lee Travis has spent a week denying that he was involved in aanything offside when he was at the beeb.
according to this week's Private Eye, there was an official instruction that he wasn nevee to be allowed to be alone with a woman whilst on BBC property.
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#138 gingerjon

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:06 AM

*And* he was a Catholic http://www.catholich...ing-daily-mass/
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#139 Griff9of13

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:24 AM

*And* he was a Catholic http://www.catholich...ing-daily-mass/


That raises some interesting questions; was he driven to do all the good things he did out of good old fashioned catholic guilt, acknowledging deep down to himself that he wa a bad person? It also begs the question, in the light of what we know now what do we make of all his efforts for charity, do we dismiss them? Are they now unimportant? I supposed you'd have to ask all those who have benefitted over the years about that, but it is something of a quandary. It is somewhat reminiscent of the Dennis Potter play, "Brimstone and Treacle" which still messes with my head when i think about it. The play questions if something evil results in something good is it still evil. Saville seems a bit like this; extreme good and extreme bad at one and the same time.
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#140 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:40 AM

That raises some interesting questions; was he driven to do all the good things he did out of good old fashioned catholic guilt, acknowledging deep down to himself that he wa a bad person? It also begs the question, in the light of what we know now what do we make of all his efforts for charity, do we dismiss them? Are they now unimportant? I supposed you'd have to ask all those who have benefitted over the years about that, but it is something of a quandary. It is somewhat reminiscent of the Dennis Potter play, "Brimstone and Treacle" which still messes with my head when i think about it. The play questions if something evil results in something good is it still evil. Saville seems a bit like this; extreme good and extreme bad at one and the same time.


people didn't have to suffer though did they? savile could have done his charitable things come what may. The idea that you can 'buy' your evil actions via someperverted yin and yang pact with the devil can't be right. If Savile thought that and it was his motivation for doing his charitable works then that makes him more evil, since he has exploited the people who benefitted for his ownj evil ends.
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