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Rochdale's new coach


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#61 Gav Wilson

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

It will not be the death knell for Rochdale. Just the opposite, it will stabilize and strengthen them.

It will be the death of them though as an independent club with their own ambitions. They will be beholden to Saints for their players, coaches by the looks of it, and, should they wish to divorce from the agreement with Saints they will not have the infrastructure left to sustain them as an independent team or club. They will be a feeder club with all that this implies, a nursery for Saints juniors. This might be all Rochdale are ever capable of being, a Championship, Championship 1 team and, if so, it could be good for them.

If they have ambitions for the top flight though, those are gone foreever.


Thats actually a decent summary, but they won't be a full on feeder club as they can only play up to 5 Saints players at a time, and thats only if they're good enough to get into the team.

Ambitions for SuperLeague can still be there if they ever got themselves a nice sugar daddy, but until that happens this is a very good alternative. The exact same goes for my club York with Hull FC.
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#62 RSN

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:44 PM

It will not be the death knell for Rochdale. Just the opposite, it will stabilize and strengthen them.

It will be the death of them though as an independent club with their own ambitions. They will be beholden to Saints for their players, coaches by the looks of it, and, should they wish to divorce from the agreement with Saints they will not have the infrastructure left to sustain them as an independent team or club. They will be a feeder club with all that this implies, a nursery for Saints juniors. This might be all Rochdale are ever capable of being, a Championship, Championship 1 team and, if so, it could be good for them.

If they have ambitions for the top flight though, those are gone foreever.


True. But there will be a time when Rochdale will have no purpose anymore, when Saints find an alternative to them which is cheaper and more efficient. This will happen in about 6 years time or so IMO and as you say the infrastructure of Rochdald will become so reliant on Saints that they will just end as a club entirely.

#63 Gav Wilson

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:45 PM

I don't think it was a case of being recommended. It was a case of Saints insisting.


Is that necessarily a bad thing? He's a young English coach with something to prove. He will be supported by an experienced Championship coach and a World-class setup that he already knows himself very well.

Whats the alternative? Bobbie Goulding?
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#64 Keith T

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:46 PM

What SuperLeague Head Coach have they appointed? As far as I can see they have hired a young former academy Coach on the recommendation of his former employers.


I never said he was a SL Head coach if you read it again. However, have you read the article about this on the Saints website? They are sending not just a coach to be Rochdales head coach but two others to assist him!!!! And you still say Rochdale are paying them?

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#65 Gav Wilson

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

True. But there will be a time when Rochdale will have no purpose anymore, when Saints find an alternative to them which is cheaper and more efficient. This will happen in about 6 years time or so IMO and as you say the infrastructure of Rochdald will become so reliant on Saints that they will just end as a club entirely.


Would you mind lending me that crystal ball please? I would love to know tomorrows EuroMillions numbers...
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#66 Gav Wilson

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

I never said he was a SL Head coach if you read it again. However, have you read the article about this on the Saints website? They are sending not just a coach to be Rochdales head coach but two others to assist him!!!! And you still say Rochdale are paying them?


St Helens will be paying their employees. Rochdale will be paying their employees.

I'm not sure whats so difficult to understand there...
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#67 Saintslass

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:50 PM

yeah but it is...rochdale is going to be used to bring through st helens kids...that makes them a feeder team

Not quite.

The under 19s will be the new under 20s, so the 'kids' will still be coached by Saints at Saints, same as with other Superleague clubs. The age range that these new partnerships refer to is over 19s. The Rochdale partnership is more formal and closer than the Whitehaven one because part of the rules for this new arrangment is that if a Superleague club opts to have more than one partnership (which it can but it doesn't have to) then the additional partnership(s) has/have to be in a non-M62 area, so Saints have really branched out and chosen Whitehaven. That will be more along the lines of the current loan set up only in 2013 five of Saints fringe players will be allowed to play for Whitehaven at any one time rather than four, as was the case in 2012.

The Rochdale partnership from Saints perspective is much more about player development as that is where the players at 19 will likely go. Whitehaven will be more like the kind of arrangement already in place.

Where Rochdale will benefit from Saints' involvement is in the access to the training facilities, if they want it, and to stuff they probably can't afford as a Championship 1 outfit, such as specialists in sports science, etc. However, I do feel that Saints were a bit arrogant in insisting that one of their coaches head up Rochdale rather than Calland, who was Rochdale's first choice of head coach. The guy who is moving in is a good youth coach but he doesn't coach the first team here and never has so how that will all work out is anyone's guess. I do hope that Saints don't try and take things over. That would be embarrassing in the extreme (to me, anyway) as Rochdale has its own history and identity and pride and I would hate to see Saints undermine that.

However, Rochdale being a supporters club means presumably this was passed by the supporters club first?

Edited by Saintslass, 11 October 2012 - 06:52 PM.


#68 keighley

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

True. But there will be a time when Rochdale will have no purpose anymore, when Saints find an alternative to them which is cheaper and more efficient. This will happen in about 6 years time or so IMO and as you say the infrastructure of Rochdald will become so reliant on Saints that they will just end as a club entirely.


Yes, I agree entirely. The same goes for the other feeder teams. It will crystalise the Cumbria situation. Whitehaven will be stronger but Workington will be independent and could ultimately emerge as the top dog up there or , alternatively they might fold and die leaving the whole of West Cumbrian RL as a feeder area for saints.

#69 Saintslass

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:58 PM

Yes, I agree entirely. The same goes for the other feeder teams. It will crystalise the Cumbria situation. Whitehaven will be stronger but Workington will be independent and could ultimately emerge as the top dog up there or , alternatively they might fold and die leaving the whole of West Cumbrian RL as a feeder area for saints.

The arrangement with Whitehaven, so far as I know, is pretty much along the same lines as is happening at present, but five instead of four players available for loan deals if required. Dave Woods won't have to play them if he doesn't want to. He's in charge. Things are a bit different for Rochdale though.

#70 RSN

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:01 PM

Would you mind lending me that crystal ball please? I would love to know tomorrows EuroMillions numbers...


So you suppose that using Rochdale and Haven as feeder clubs will be the cheapest and most efficient way to get the youngsters through for decades? Common sense suggests not. Maybe the 6 years was a punt, but their will be a time when Saints find this alternative and scrap Rochdale. In these economic times clubs are being turned into businesses, so Saints will do whatever they can to save money. Rochdale will not be the cheapest way to bring their youngsters through for the long term future.

#71 Gav Wilson

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:06 PM

So you suppose that using Rochdale and Haven as feeder clubs will be the cheapest and most efficient way to get the youngsters through for decades? Common sense suggests not. Maybe the 6 years was a punt, but their will be a time when Saints find this alternative and scrap Rochdale. In these economic times clubs are being turned into businesses, so Saints will do whatever they can to save money. Rochdale will not be the cheapest way to bring their youngsters through for the long term future.


Its a hundred thousand pounds per year cheaper than the current system...
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#72 RSN

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:07 PM

Its a hundred thousand pounds per year cheaper than the current system...


I know, and there will likely be a solution which will be even be cheaper, that's when Rochdale have served their purpose.

#73 Gav Wilson

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

I know, and there will likely be a solution which will be even be cheaper, that's when Rochdale have served their purpose.


Right, on that typically cynical note, I'm out.
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#74 timhammonds

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

I just don't like this deal!
I am not over keen on dual reg, or any other such set up where the plug can be pulled,
The deal will ensure Rochdale have a future and I hope that they make the most of it and build a greater fanbase around the success that a winning team bring, but I'd rather see individual teams and full P&R which will allow teams to dream of one day returning to the glory days(like man city did in the round ball game)

#75 Saintslass

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Yes and no. He isn't an inexperienced coach, the bloke who is going to Rochdale from Saints. Talbot has been one of our youth coaches for years. It's the likes of him rather than Mike Rush who are responsible for our young players (Rush set up the system). I feel uncomfortable with the way that Saints insisted otherwise they likely wouldn't have gone ahead with the partnership. That bit just doesn't sit well with me as a fan of rugby league. However, Talbot is experienced and has brought through a lot of our young players and so I can understand Saints wanting their own to be looked after. On top of that, he will take whatever extra he may be able to offer along to Rochdale and they will benefit from that just as Talbot will benefit from whatever Calland and others are able to offer. Like I say, yes and no.

Whats the alternative? Bobbie Goulding?

Lordy. No need to be desperate! lol

#76 Saintslass

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:25 PM

I know, and there will likely be a solution which will be even be cheaper, that's when Rochdale have served their purpose.

That is just a ridiculous statement to make. I may be a Saints fan but I don't kiss the feet of my club. I'm well aware of good points and bad points at Saints. However, this is a partnership, not a take over and Rochdale was not obliged to enter it and they don't have to remain a part of it. I'm quite sure that if they don't like it they will pull out.

#77 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:26 PM

So Rochdale will have six Saints players next season. What about the season after if Saints have another crop of promising players? And then the following seasons. Where will all the players end up if Rochdale can only field six?
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#78 Saintslass

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:32 PM

So Rochdale will have six Saints players next season. What about the season after if Saints have another crop of promising players? And then the following seasons. Where will all the players end up if Rochdale can only field six?

Five players playing - if they are good enough to play obviously - out of a total of eight available I believe.

I doubt it will work as you suggest though. Saints, along with all other clubs, don't keep hold of their young players year after year. They release most of them. I would imagine only those considered the best will be retained, as is the case now.

#79 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:49 PM

Five players playing - if they are good enough to play obviously - out of a total of eight available I believe.

I doubt it will work as you suggest though. Saints, along with all other clubs, don't keep hold of their young players year after year. They release most of them. I would imagine only those considered the best will be retained, as is the case now.

Ok but what if three of the first five turn out to be cracking prospects that only leaves room for a couple of new players in year two. Will five spots prove to be enough? I think within three years the number will more than likely be as many as ten. If that happens can we still say that Rochdale aren't a feeder club?
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#80 roughyedspud

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:56 PM

they are a feeder club.....end of story


rochdale's sole purpose now is to provide a place for st helens to bring on their kids....

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