274 replies to this topic

[The Parksider]

If the RFL/ SL are determined to bankroll SL regardless, my opinion counts for nothing so there's no point. However I may chose to enter the debate if Salford are shown the door to SL if it all goes teets up.

Your opinions always welcome, it's my bet the RFL will not buy the ground and SLE will not offer to buy the club.

[EastLondonMike]

Security firm 'Securitas' linked with investment at Salford, according to the MEN..

http://menmedia.co.u...-new-shirt-deal

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

I would assume it would be much like Bradford earlier in the year, with regards to their licence. Any points deduction will be from the 2013 league table. If they go into liquidation, then the RFL will have to agree to accept their memebership back of the new owners (if there are any) and then decide which league they will play in (which i would assume again would be SL)

Thank you. Nice to be proved wrong for once

[keighley]

What exactly are you asking for here, Oldham control their own destiny don't they? It is their fault they aren't at the top of the SL, Championship or wherever.

Parksider suggests that the Oldham club should just quit because there is only room for one team in Manchester and that team is Salford.I disagree. I think Oldham will never become a catchment area for Salford. It will just cease to be a RL area at all.I agree Oldham have there future in their own hands and it is their own fault they are where they are.

[keighley]

I never EVER suggested killing Oldham off. How can we have a debate when you make "killer" points like this??

You say "substantial parts of the Oldham population" won't go to Salford. I never EVER said they would I suggested if you could get a couple of hundred in time, and a couple of hundred from all the areas there'd be a tremendous crowd in Barton.

Salford don't attract enough fans, RL needs to try to capture the Manchester market as well as Salford for a succesful SL team

Championship rugby doesn't attract many fans so Oldham can't do it, even if they won the CC grand final, and aren't doing it big style.

Superleague is the attraction nowadays something you have to grasp as it's not 1952.

The vehicle for getting fans in that massive area and onto seats has to be Superleague.

If nobody wants to try to do that at Salford they'll sink into the Championship and probably morph into another Swinton Oldham or Rochdale.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that Oldham people don't all sit at home waiting for the day Athletic or Rughyeds one day rise again, which is your constant "re-incarnation" theme.

Oldham people who want to go watch a top Rugby match go watch Wigan or Sale and doubtless many watch United or City.

It's NOT 1952 and people do travel outside their back yard.

Where do you think Rhinos fans come from

Where do you think Bulls fans come from

Where do you think Cas fans come from.

Many travel further than the distance between Oldham and Barton on less direct roads.

Why Salford? because if you haven't noticed they have an excellent stadium just by the M60 - miss that did you?

As for your Oldham dreams, they don't have a decent stadium,

You have to look at the game today, who comes from where and how to support teams. Never again will 5000 fans walk out of their terraced home in Oldham down to the local club. It's not like that anymore, as John M says.

Not even at Hunslet, they travel from miles to come and watch. I'm at the "other side of the city" I have friends in Wakefield and Halifax who come and watch Hunslet. I'll make you a longer liist, not one of them will be from Hunslet.

How will Sale get thousands into Barton? Run 100 coaches up from Sale? No they'll come from all over.....

So no apologies for cutting your posts, you need to concentrate on the important debates, and like it or not the reality today is Rugby League needs to get a profitable market out of the Salford/Manchester area and to do that it needs to provide an attractive product in a comfortable stadium.

Doesn't it??

Discuss.

I don't have the will to answer all that. However, in answer of your question, where do akk the Bukks fans come from, I can definitley tell you that they don't come from Keighley.

[The Parksider]

Parksider suggests that the Oldham club should just quit because there is only room for one team in Manchester and that team is Salford.I disagree. I think Oldham will never become a catchment area for Salford. It will just cease to be a RL area at all.I agree Oldham have there future in their own hands and it is their own fault they are where they are.

1. STOP attributing your own quotes to me please. I never said that. Please stop this......

2. Listen to what other people say. Oldham is not a catchment area for Salford it's now a catchment area for Wigan for live fans, plus many may pay SKY for their RL Fix.

3. Please go to Oldham and talk to the schools, the junior sides, the senior amateurs and the RL fans there and tell them Oldham will die as an RL area without the senior club, they may ignore you as much as the club.

Semi professional clubs do not underpin the game, they still play RL in west Leeds and they still go watch RL in West Leeds even though there is no Bramley. They still turn on their TV's and pay to watch the game that way. If Hunslet went tommorrow only 150 old men would miss them and it would remain a vibrant RL area.

Why do they play RL in Coventry when there's no CC club for miles?

Championship rugby ruins clubs who don't generate enough money to pay the players to realise their chairmans ambitions, this ends up in administration and grounds and other assets being sold off. If consequently people with a few quid to burn want to use it to amuse themselves rescuing these clubs that's fine by me and great fun, until the next crisis comes along. Eventually this stops and an SL club has to keep the "club" or should it be name, alive.

So don't tell me small championship clubs underpin Rugby league in their areas.

If so how have so many vibrant clubs sprung up hundreds of miles away from any chamionship clubs.

Edited by The Parksider, 24 October 2012 - 07:17 AM.

[The Parksider]

I don't have the will to answer all that. However, in answer of your question, where do all the Bulls fans come from, I can definitley tell you that they don't come from Keighley.

How do you know that. It's a ridiculous thing to say. I'm sure that many season ticket passes at odsal include keighley postcodes. Why not? I know they'll contain Leeds postcodes, my dentists chooses to watch Bulls and my wifes's work colleague's husband watches Castleford and they live two streets away. My lads friends who go to watch Leeds with us are from Batley.

And anyway how many bums do keighley put on seats? How many pro players do keighley produce?
How much profit have keighley made this last 20 years? How much of the ground di they sell off?
How many amateur clubs do they stimulate in the area??

I'm not having a go at your club but if you think that RL fans are abandoning the game because their local CC club is no longer independant and able to dream of Superleague then you are wrong wrong wrong.

Firstly the fans you like to quote at Oldham. I went to Central Park I think for a cup semi final for oldham - must be 25 years ago. there were 5,000 Oldham fans in the ground. Do you really think those same people are today waiting for oldham to just get back to the big time??.

Many will be dead many will have moved on. They are yesterdays audience. Tommorrows audience has a choice, they can watch their RL live at grounds or live on SKY TV. massive numbers watch the game at PRO level on TV and at grounds, significant numbers of fans in Championship club areas choose to go watch Superleague games.

With respect your so one eyed. For ever championship fan who walks away from the game, there's been three new fans walk into the game. Do your numbers for once (as they say on Dragons Den), since superleague came along which way has paying support at the gate and paying support via TV gone overall.

"UP UP and away" as the song goes.

Edited by The Parksider, 24 October 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I don't have the will to answer all that. However, in answer of your question, where do akk the Bukks fans come from, I can definitley tell you that they don't come from Keighley.

plenty of bulls fans come from Keighley

plenty of Cougars fans come from ouitsider Keighley.

[saints10coach]

I wonder if Salford did go to the wall, would the other SL clubs vote to retain their SL membership, seeing as their fan base is not as large or as lucrative to the other clubs as the Bulls following is?

[keighley]

1. STOP attributing your own quotes to me please. I never said that. Please stop this......

2. Listen to what other people say. Oldham is not a catchment area for Salford it's now a catchment area for Wigan for live fans, plus many may pay SKY for their RL Fix.

3. Please go to Oldham and talk to the schools, the junior sides, the senior amateurs and the RL fans there and tell them Oldham will die as an RL area without the senior club, they may ignore you as much as the club.

Semi professional clubs do not underpin the game, they still play RL in west Leeds and they still go watch RL in West Leeds even though there is no Bramley. They still turn on their TV's and pay to watch the game that way. If Hunslet went tommorrow only 150 old men would miss them and it would remain a vibrant RL area.

Why do they play RL in Coventry when there's no CC club for miles?

Championship rugby ruins clubs who don't generate enough money to pay the players to realise their chairmans ambitions, this ends up in administration and grounds and other assets being sold off. If consequently people with a few quid to burn want to use it to amuse themselves rescuing these clubs that's fine by me and great fun, until the next crisis comes along. Eventually this stops and an SL club has to keep the "club" or should it be name, alive.

So don't tell me small championship clubs underpin Rugby league in their areas.

If so how have so many vibrant clubs sprung up hundreds of miles away from any chamionship clubs.

1. What is your position on the Oldham club then ?2.You were the one who said it was. Your famous 200 fans. Ort are you going to say you didn't say that either?3. If you pay for my ticket I will go and talk to them. How do you know what they would say. have you been there and asked your own questions?4. You are confusing amateurs playimg in their town with inhabitants of the said town travelling miles to watch SL team. Not the same thing.5. Maybe they play in Coventry because there is a SL club in London. Tyhey do not play in Coventry bacause of SL any more than they play because of CC. Although they might be llooking forward to earning a few bob from Coventry in CC shortly.6. I didn't say the local club underpinned local rugby. I said the absence of a local club would not lead to huge numbers of fans gravitating to distant SL clubs.7. You could also ask, how come vibrant clubs have sprung up hundreds of miles away from SL clubs. Obviously neither theory is correct.8. CC clubs are in some degree of difficulty but amazingly not as many of them are going to the wall as are in SL.

[roughyedspud]

I wonder if Salford did go to the wall, would the other SL clubs vote to retain their SL membership, seeing as their fan base is not as large or as lucrative to the other clubs as the Bulls following is?

they'd have too........

[Dave T]

I wonder if Salford did go to the wall, would the other SL clubs vote to retain their SL membership, seeing as their fan base is not as large or as lucrative to the other clubs as the Bulls following is?

I don't think any decision on keeping Bradford in will have been based on the away following, which tbh has declined massively in recent years.

They decided to keep Wakefield in, so I see no reason why Salford wouldn't be kept in. I suspect they wouldn't talk about buying Salford as they did with Bradford, but then I think it is right that every 'investment' and decision is looked at based on its individual circumstances.

[saints10coach]

I don't think any decision on keeping Bradford in will have been based on the away following, which tbh has declined massively in recent years.

They decided to keep Wakefield in, so I see no reason why Salford wouldn't be kept in. I suspect they wouldn't talk about buying Salford as they did with Bradford, but then I think it is right that every 'investment' and decision is looked at based on its individual circumstances.

And this is why the game is disenfranchising the supporters below SL.

[Hornetto]

And this is why the game is disenfranchising the supporters below SL.

Supporters disenfranchised by franchising?

[Ackroman]

Supporters disenfranchised by franchising?

exactly. By creating a club you exclude those not in it

[Padge]

I wonder if Salford did go to the wall, would the other SL clubs vote to retain their SL membership, seeing as their fan base is not as large or as lucrative to the other clubs as the Bulls following is?

You may have answered your own question.

Since professional sport is all about money, professional sports clubs will vote for the money. In 1995 a load of clubs voted for mergers at the first meeting to discuss SL, they voted for it to get their hands on the money. OK it subsequently changed but they voted for the money.

If you were running a business which way would you vote given the option of co-operating with another company, Comany A, to increase your sales by 1% or Company B to increase your sales by 20%, its a no brainer.

[DeadShotKeen]

I'd suggest with respect you take on board Sheddings, Avengers and Padges views as they know the area and have seen these things. People from around the M60 inside and out do go to Wigan.

I've lived in Manchester for 20 years Parky so I'm well placed to comment! There is huge "latent" support for Salford in Manchester. I know tons of people who "follow" Salford to a small extent but don't go to games. They'll generally be football first and I guess spoilt by the success of the 2 footie clubs, Salford thus become sort of a moot point/bynote/curio. In 20 years of living in Manchester, however, the only Wigan fans I've ever encountered have been students or exiles (as I've already said).

As for Salford not being Manchester, the 2 towns are inextricably linked (in fact literally). Man U draw thousands of their fanbase from Salford, who by no means class themselves as "outsiders". Old Trafford is actually technically in Salford Quays. It's completely wrong to suggest that Salford RLFC don't have a big imprint in Manchester sporting culture, they do, they've just been unable to capitalise on it for whatever reason but essentially because they're dwarfed by 2 football giants.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

And this is why the game is disenfranchising the supporters below SL.

what fraanchise is that?

[shrek]

If so how have so many vibrant clubs sprung up hundreds of miles away from any chamionship clubs.

In my* experience most of those clubs seem to have at least one highly enthusastic "ex pat" be it northener, Kiwi or Aussie in the mix somewhere.

*That is my experience but I stand to be shot down though by someone in the West Country who barely goes north of Worcestor and has never set foot in Australia or New Zealand!

[Kenilworth Tiger]

So..........

After reading through this thread and nearly losing the will to live are Salford ACTUALLY trouble or not?

It doesn't seem to me that they are